Genre snobbery? rant warning lol

[2112]

There's a great Alvin Lee interview here regarding British blues I always think about regarding things like this;

"...it was quite funny these plot purist blues fanatics and they would come and they all would wear leather coats for some reason and all stand around almost taking notes as you were playing and watching very intently and they used to come back and say hey, you’ve played that Elmore James solo wrong and that really used to annoy me because I said I play what I feel I’m not copying somebody else and they’d say I know but you played it wrong it doesn’t go like that and so I kicked against all that..."

Keep doing your thing man.

 

[Sixstring]

Really! I mean I have seen your vids of you playing and I wish I had half your chops! If the people that come to watch you play dont like it that's their problem, I say play e'm over with a hard note !

 

[AtomicJeff]

There's a great Alvin Lee interview here regarding British blues I always think about regarding things like this;

I was lucky enough to have seen him play in 1981. Killer player.

 

[Cainer]

Damn, it's hard to believe that anyone who's seen you play could be so ignorant!

Really! I mean I have seen your vids of you playing and I wish I had half your chops! If the people that come to watch you play dont like it that's their problem, I say play e'm over with a hard note !

well that's the thing - I never hear it from people who come to shows - in fact we go over extremely well with 'blues audiences' - it's the self-appointed gatekeepers of the genre that are the problem - the blues societies, radio DJs, promoters etc. The dudes cosplaying Blues Brothers as if it was a documentary

I find the entire notion of music genre to be very difficult to grapple with.

yeah it's pretty limiting. In the case of festivals, it can be useful in that 'if you like this, you'll likely enjoy these other variations'. It's like if you had a tomato festival, and at it you had booths serving tomato sauce, pasta, bruschetta, fried green tomatoes, medicinal products derived from tomatoes, tomato-themed artwork - people that dig tomatoes would likely really enjoy it and likely be exposed to even more that would expand their idea of what tomatoes can be/do. Then you get these guys going around insisting every single booth must have only beefsteak tomatoes - don't put salt or seasoning on them! don't slice them or heat them in any way! That's not how tomatoes were originally eaten! That's basically the blues world, in many places.

I don’t know if it’s social media, or just the sucky attitude prevalent in social interaction these days, but I’ve never seen a more divisive, exclusionary, and polarized society than we have today. Six plus decades of watching the country, and we are decidedly at the shallowest, most intolerant level we’ve ever been. It’s almost as if humans need something to hate to give what they love validity.

I could do a lot of hypothesizing, but I’ll just say that the whole “co-exist” mindset so many espouse, well… we, as a society, ain’t walking the walk.

It's indeed social media.

I think it's social media to a large extent - people say stuff to others they wouldn't dare to face-to-face. It seems to prod people to feel they need to express their opinion on everything too.

There's a great Alvin Lee interview here regarding British blues I always think about regarding things like this;

"...it was quite funny these plot purist blues fanatics and they would come and they all would wear leather coats for some reason and all stand around almost taking notes as you were playing and watching very intently and they used to come back and say hey, you’ve played that Elmore James solo wrong and that really used to annoy me because I said I play what I feel I’m not copying somebody else and they’d say I know but you played it wrong it doesn’t go like that and so I kicked against all that..."

Keep doing your thing man.

Hilarious when you hear stories of people hassling someone on the stature of Alvin Lee about it lol. Similar thing to the SRV being booed at Montreaux situation.
I did have a conversation with my wife about whether I should just cave and put out a more traditional blues album to try and get somewhere, but that idea evaporated pretty quickly as it's kind of the opposite of the whole reason I do music. Just finished an album actually and got the masters back yesterday, and I guarantee it's not gonna be 'blues enough' for the Fedora and sunglasses crowd, but c'est la vie - I'd rather risk failing on my own terms than someone else's.

Appreciate all the comments in this thread!

 

[Will Chen]

I find the entire notion of music genre to be very difficult to grapple with.

That's an interesting take. I think the high level genre groupings to be forgiving enough that they can guide someone to similar music they might enjoy yet still expose them to new ideas. But yeah...this current sub genre thing where everything is some micro niche is overkill and super annoying.

 

[Sixstring]

Oh man, the self appointed critics are the worst, pay them no mind! You have nothing to worry about least of all what those types say.

 

[∞Fractals]

That's an interesting take. I think the high level genre groupings to be forgiving enough that they can guide someone to similar music they might enjoy yet still expose them to new ideas. But yeah...this current sub genre thing where everything is some micro niche is overkill and super annoying.

I think my perspective would be that in the 1980s there was a wild explosion of wildly different “genres“ … although college FM would generally play them all.

Before that in popular music for kids in the 70s, we generally just had rock and/or disco. (Apologies to all the great jazz artist of the time, including the fusion developments ala RTF. )

As such there was small moment in time with a wide variety and sonic palette of new interests from ska to metal with everything else … Rush, Style Council, SRV, Berlin, Smiths, EBTG, Depeche Mode, English Beat, The Replacements etc etc

Retrospectively… I guess we can analyze it and drop them into buckets and be a bit reductive with nomenclature- but that’s not really how my mind works when I sit down to write music.

It all is in the hopper and I don’t think about genres too much when writing.

I’m working on a tune right now, that utilizes two drummers; one’s alternative rock on the left and the jazz drummer on the right. I love the syncopated rhythms.

Again, I don’t have to please anyone but myself these days.

 

[NY Guitarist]

This reminds me of the saying; "There are two types of people. Those who divide people into groups, and those who don't."

 

[Will Chen]

I think my perspective would be that in the 1980s there was a wild explosion of wildly different “genres“ … although college FM would generally play them all.

Before that in popular music for kids in the 70s, we generally just had rock and/or disco. (Apologies to all the great jazz artist of the time, including the fusion developments ala RTF. )

As such there was small moment in time with a wide variety and sonic palette of new interests from ska to metal with everything else … Rush, Style Council, SRV, Berlin, Smiths, EBTG, Depeche Mode, English Beat, The Replacements etc etc

Retrospectively… I guess we can analyze it and drop them into buckets and be a bit reductive with nomenclature- but that’s not really how my mind works when I sit down to write music.

It all is in the hopper and I don’t think about genres too much when writing.

I’m working on a tune right now, that utilizes two drummers; one’s alternative rock on the left and the jazz drummer on the right. I love the syncopated rhythms.

Again, I don’t have to please anyone but myself these days.

80's forward we had a technological explosion with synths, drum machines, digital effects, and finally the ability for everyone to have a studio in their home while simultaneously destroying the prior models for music distribution. So I guess some segmentation was absolutely a given.

My annoyance is more that given that model we have artists defining their genre rather than these things happening more organically as I'd argue an artist's target based on their inspiration isn't always perceived they way they think it is. However, I guess the flip side of this is the OP's position where the organic genre has become locked down by self appointed gatekeepers which is even more annoying.

 

[usersnoozer]

For all this talk about genre snobbery, country and hip-hop are easy butts of jokes on guitar forums.

 

[JoKeR III]

This thread reminds me of a quote: "Those who can do. Those who can't, criticize".

...I'd rather risk failing on my own terms than someone else's.

This is gold!!! Major kudos to you for staying true to who you are as a musician and an artist. Trying to please people is like chasing the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow - the target keeps moving.

My life 'mantra' is; be honest, be genuine, love others and stay humble. If I can do that, I will have led a successful life.

 

[TG3K]

For all this talk about genre snobbery, country and hip-hop are easy butts of jokes on guitar forums.

I can understand hip-hop getting some grief on guitar forums since there's seldom any guitar involved in hip-hop. But country? I'm generally a rock player, but can't deny there's some pretty great playing currently going on in the country market. Hell, there's a lot of crunchy rock guitar sounds in modern country. And I'm showing my age here, but I'd rather listen to commercial country music than most of the metal stuff out there these days. Any band with a lead growler/screamer is a non-starter for me. (But I won't bash those who like that kind of thing. To each their own.)

 

[Will Chen]

Any band with a lead growler/screamer is a non-starter for me. (But I won't bash those who like that kind of thing. To each their own.)

I have a pretty high tolerance for metal singers short of cookie monster stuff, but I listen mostly to instrumental music across the board which 100% fixes that issue! But I agree completely with your assessment of country, it's more or less for guitar on the radio today what hair metal was in the 80's.

 

[skolacki]

Many of the critics hated Led Zeppelin. You're talking about the same types of people. Snobbery is what it is. Just keep doing what you're doing. You sound really great man. I wish I could play like that. Put yourself out on social media for people to see for themselves. Screw the critics, you're never going to to make them happy anyhow, because they are probably not happy people.

 

[gitfruit]

SRV was hated by the traditional blues crowd when he started playing his own original stuff, not doing covers. Only after the success of his first album they could accept the new stuff...

 

[unix-guy]

But I agree completely with your assessment of country, it's more or less for guitar on the radio today what hair metal was in the 80's.

100% this!

 

[pauly]

Hi Gary,

I’ve found that so common in the blues scene - even here in Australia. I copped it in the blues scene here because I liked rock. Don’t let it worry you because, regardless of the snobbery, it comes down to music, and you have that in spades. Resign yourself to the fact that some people need to feel superior, and (even though it’s bullshit) will use any means to attain that goal.
As you know - I have some recordings of a guitarist who is well beyond his peers in the blues scene… Unbelievably so in fact. He’s almost as good as you!

Thanks
Pauly

Just wondering if it's the same in other genres too - seems to be the less popular a genre is, the more exclusionary the zealots are - cause or effect?

I play a style that I kind of describe as 'one foot in the blues, one foot in everything else' and man, the difficulty in getting traction with the old guard blues DJs, festival bookers, and other assorted gate-keepers is crazy. There are guys saying things like "there were no stratocasters in the cotton fields!" (I assume then that electric players like Albert King and BB King aren't TRUE blues??!?!). Literally guys complaining that modern blues players don't sound like Charley Patton lmao - this is like an F1 fan complaining that the cars aren't horse-drawn. Of course they're not fans of amp modelers that goes without saying lol

It sucks because I generally go over well with blues audiences, but my access to them is hampered by all these old fogeys (99 percent of who can't play an instrument of course, yet somehow claim a deeper understanding of the music than anyone else). Meanwhile they're also complaining endlessly about how the genre is declining in popularity - hmm, why could that be?!

Anybody else trying to make a go of it in other genres having a similar experience?

/rant

 

[KevinP]

I think the idea of genres helps when you think of it as a method of saying "I like metal core, metal, 90's rock, and rock/blues" find me some stuff in that vein to listen to, or "you listen to polaris maybe you will like currents". That's semi helpful in finding new music without playing modern country or bluegress for me. It is also good for a "hey what kind of music do you play" type question, it helps people to internalize what it is you do. That being said, the blues crowd has always been really snobby, I toured and worked with a regional/national blues artist back in the late 90's and early 2000's, and even then people were totally shitting on bands that were a little too rock, or a little too this, etc. The artists weren't like that at all, I met tons of blues legends, none of them were gatekeepers at all - it was always the promoters or random fan boys who created their little "societies".
My take away from all of that was, people are going to have their opinions, I'm not going to change them so I might as well ignore it and do what I want/can. I won't let those people be part of my feeling like I'm doing something good or not, but it sucks when those people get to block you from audiences.

 

[AndyOrr]

I read the promoters critique of the blues as “I‘ll pay you 20% of gate, no guaranteed minimum and the check gets mailed when I mail it.“

 

[USMC_Trev]

Lie.
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gonna tell my grandkids this was Men In Black