FW15 - Convinced there is something awry with the Dizzy models

clarky said:
Andy - maybe try the old "T808 with no drive" trick prior to the amp block
or the Axe equivalent to this - Filter block, set 'null' / low cut 700 / hi cut 880

then you should be able to pile on the dirt a bit more without flubbing the lows and fizzing the highs so much..
this has really helped me find the mojo of amps I was never previously fond of
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I hadn't tried this "filter" trick. Worked pretty well for me although I think 700Hz is way too high. I settled on 176Hz low cut and 3638 Hi cut. I still want to have a beefy low end.
 
symphx said:
agree sounded better in 14 Im getting closer; liked what sat. DID do regardless of what it DOESNT do now. It seemed like sick gain before, and now Im cranking everything plus a drive pedal, again getting close, oh well. Tonemiester, what cabs u using? I suppose I may need to switch cabs, if the amp changed so much.
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Well I mostly use the VH3 and VH4 in a TOOL tonematch patch I did. The cabs are rendered TM blocks. There is no doubt that the cab will do wonders so take the time to try a bunch out. 4 x12s always sound better to me for Hi gain stuff. Just tonight I discovered the FAS Modern II AMP. It sounds like what I want the Diezel to sound like. It was really easy to dial that one in. Tons of gain available. I think I ended up with my input drive at 2.68 and it was a very nice distorted tone.
 
Just a few things I've noticed (and were mentioned in the v15b thread):

1) FWIW, the Herbie & Dizzy default to high CF Comp values now. At least on the VH4, you can lower that and get more predictable SAT switch behavior. Maybe you wont like it. But, like jlynnb1, I'm also trying to imagine needing it on the Diezels. Trying to strip the paint off the walls? ;)

2) On the VH4, the presence control at 0.5 sounds like it used to at ~0.9. That control used to be pretty dead until after 0.7.

3)Upon upgrading to 15b, my old standby Dizzy CH3 patch had pretty weak gain when I first tried it. I did the ol' reset by switching the amp back & forth, and it was back to its Diesely saturation.

4) Andy, you have a cool band name! It reminds me of the old Pioneer radio ads where the guy's playing metal on the bridge making it wobble and says "...sorry"
 
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Guys, I'm NOT using the Sat switch for ultra-high saturation. I'm using it with LOW input gain settings, to get a smoother woolier sound at lower-gains. It sounds very different to just having the input trim a bit higher. Except it doesn't sound the same in FW15.

Not trying to get ultra-high gain, so saying "can't believe anyone needs that much gain rofls rofls rofls I am so smaaarrrrttt!!!" is not really that helpful.
 
AndyTNBD said:
Guys, I'm NOT using the Sat switch for ultra-high saturation. I'm using it with LOW input gain settings, to get a smoother woolier sound at lower-gains. It sounds very different to just having the input trim a bit higher. Except it doesn't sound the same in FW15. Not trying to get ultra-high gain, so saying "can't believe anyone needs that much gain rofls rofls rofls I am so smaaarrrrttt!!!" is not really that helpful.
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I don't think anyone responded that way, but if you want to be an ass, feel free.
 
The SAT switch is a mod designed for Marshall-style amps. It's available in all models but that doesn't guarantee that it will work with each type.

The release notes say that some stuff has been changed in the Diezel models but do not mention the tapers (except Presence/Depth in general). So I don't know why the tapers came up in this thread.
 
Yeah I gravitated away from the dizzy amps once 15 happened. Believe it or not I started using the peavy amp and it sounds more clearer and more tone.
 
Narzugon said:
If you missed that whole discussion in the beta release thread the simple version is to turn the treble/presence and gain up (to taste) due to the change on the taper on the pots. Nothing has changed with the gain or tone stack other than the way the pots work now.
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Yek, here's where it started. Sounds relevant to me.
 
Snedecor said:
Just a few things I've noticed (and were mentioned in the v15b thread):

Herbie & Dizzy default to high CF Comp values now.
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Why is this I wonder? Shouldn't the default be 0% for all amps and then if you want to add more you do but the "default" amount of CF Comp should be inherent in the algorithm for the particular amp so the CF Comp knob is simply relative to the the default value of the amp. Right? I had to crank the CF Comp way down to make the amp useable.
 
I guess the answer is needed from cliff, or to just remove the sat switch on the models it does not work with now.
 
dpeterson said:
I guess the answer is needed from cliff, or to just remove the sat switch on the models it does not work with now.
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This wouldn't be a solution though. The Sat switch may not on its own perform as expected by some users with certain amps but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's useless to everyone with those same amps. All parameters are exposed in all amps as they may be used as building blocks in reshaping how that amp performs / what kind of tones one wishes to draw from a given amp. I experiment with elements like this often and I certainly would not want to see any parameter hidden simply because it is not conventionally used in the real-world amp being modeled.

If a parameter is exposed to users one may choose to not use it. If the parameter is hidden no one has the choice to use it.

I won't pretend to know what the answer to the concerns expressed in this thread. I do know however that no solution will be found by placing limitations on the users ability to modify the behavior of the modeled amps.

15b is a public beta and Cliff has stated that he has another change to the amp he plans to make to the amp modeling before firmware 15.0 is officially released. I can't speak for anyone else but for my part I make no changes to my existing patches during a beta release. Such an effort could be rendered unusable when the final f/w release is made available. A beta release can be fun to experiment with but I'd hate to have to rework things again just a few days/weeks later.
 
Tonemeister said:
Why is this I wonder? Shouldn't the default be 0% for all amps and then if you want to add more you do but the "default" amount of CF Comp should be inherent in the algorithm for the particular amp so the CF Comp knob is simply relative to the the default value of the amp. Right? I had to crank the CF Comp way down to make the amp useable.
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It'll be interesting to hear from the great Cliff when he gets back from vacation. Maybe part of his epiphany. I think it used to default to a non-zero value for the Herbie & Dizzy (feel free to correct me), albeit a much lower value. Though I may be remembering from when that cathode-follower comp. value used to be simply "comp".


Andy, this is for you. Cheers:
Pioneer TV Ad 1994 - YouTube
 
Deaj said:
This wouldn't be a solution though. The Sat switch may not on its own perform as expected by some users with certain amps but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's useless to everyone with those same amps. All parameters are exposed in all amps as they may be used as building blocks in reshaping how that amp performs / what kind of tones one wishes to draw from a given amp. I experiment with elements like this often and I certainly would not want to see any parameter hidden simply because it is not conventionally used in the real-world amp being modeled.

If a parameter is exposed to users one may choose to not use it. If the parameter is hidden no one has the choice to use it.

I won't pretend to know what the answer to the concerns expressed in this thread. I do know however that no solution will be found by placing limitations on the users ability to modify the behavior of the modeled amps.

15b is a public beta and Cliff has stated that he has another change to the amp he plans to make to the amp modeling before firmware 15.0 is officially released. I can't speak for anyone else but for my part I make no changes to my existing patches during a beta release. Such an effort could be rendered unusable when the final f/w release is made available. A beta release can be fun to experiment with but I'd hate to have to rework things again just a few days/weeks later.
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I just read through 50 cliff posts, I can find no allusion to the above highlighted statement, when or where did he say this?
 
Yup. He stated he had another cathode (I believe) epiphany and that when he got back from a much-needed couple days off, he was going to get to work on it. Things just keep getting better around here!
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
Yup. He stated he had another cathode (I believe) epiphany and that when he got back from a much-needed couple days off, he was going to get to work on it. Things just keep getting better around here!
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Thanks, (when I glanced at that, thought it was an old quote, so many "epiphanies") gulp, hope doesnt change anything tooo much, unless gives some thick smooth , hypersaturated gain :)
 
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