Bug? [FW 18 Beta 1] Angle Severe doesn't seem right!

axifist

axifist

Experienced
Hi!

I cannot explain what might be causing this, but back in the german forums axefx.de, we all agree, that the Angle Severe lost almost everything it had up until FW 17.04.

When I updated to FW 18 Beta 1 (in case there will be a 2nd Beta) I thought it sounded ok, but after resetting the amp to its default settings (Ctrl+i in Axe-Edit / double-bypass on the front panel (which is what I did, won't use Axe-Edit with this Beta)) it sounded horrible, no life in it.

The above mentioned might be untrue. What I'll do is to complete revert to 17.04 with my backup, check everything, reload the Beta and then look at the parameters to see which one(s) change(s). I'll provide the data this evening (central europe time of course :p ).

But still, please Cliff, look into the Angle Severe again! From what I've heard this amp has a very specific design, that's why I think it's not offending if I say that I think it's very likely that you missed something. If you need help, I hope Paco will offer it, since he helped you back when this amp was introduced in the Axe.
 
There's nothing wrong with the SEVERE (1 and 2) in both pubic betas.
 
Hey yek!

I didn't provide the info I promised, sorry about that, I'm busy like I've never been before, I tend to forget things these days.

My first impression, that the Severe 1 sounded better right after the update, was wrong. I checked all the values, they were adjusted properly. So that's about that! My ears aren't the best these days, I hardly play any guitar right now...

But like I said, many of us in the german forums (or let's say everyone who commented on the Severe) said the same thing: This amp lost its fine gain structure, those nice overtones etc.

That's all I can say right now. I haven't tested it on a real cab yet, only my studio-headphones up till now, which isn't the best way to comment on sound and feel etc, I know. Let's see what Paco says about it, he knows this amp very well and can give a deeper insight than I can.
 
I also think that there's something wrong with the Severe Amps Models. First I thought I should wait until they are "G3-fied" but in the latest Beta version they still don't sound/feel right. I once owned a Savage 120 and think that the model in firmwares prior to 18b is very good!
But I can't tell exaclty what it is - I think I have to check out what the people in the German forum say about it.
 
Clips and patches please. Especially pre-18 install and post-18 clips of a re-amped signal. Very hard to assess anything based on the descriptions you're providing.
 
i can't tell anything at the moment. I got no amp here to make actuall tests, as said in the german board - please be patienced. At the moment i haven't access to my axe since I'm in germany due of technical training. But if it helps, I'll provide clips as soon as I'm back at my workshop.

cheers
Paco
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:


too many words and not enough sounds.

this is angle 1 then angle 2 at default settings with Factory Cab 58 with 2nd public beta (beta7). Ernie Ball JP guitar, D-Sonic in Bridge.
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That sound pretty much like a Savage to my ears, . Thanks Chris for your clip! ;-)

PS: A typical trademark is the "kerrong" when doing palm mutes. Engl uses a pretty high set highpass filter in his preamp design and bring back the low resonance frequencies via NFB line . Due of this emphasis/deemphasis concept before and after the overdrive gain stages, the highs and mids have a very fast attack, and the lower frequencies stay strong and fat, not get muddy and flubby even with high ammount of gain. The tone still sound fresh and open - not too much compressed, the fast and punchy mid range area is a true trademark for ENGL sound design . The preamp design is pretty unique, that's why I call Horst Langer a true amp designer, same league as Peter Diezel and some other guys (a swiss company called "Shinrock Amps" for example, or Alexander Dumble....). These guys deserve the highest respect, they pushed the tonal amp concepts forward to the next level....

Sadly I don't work for them anymore and they don't answered my mails. ......we will never know....:?
 
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As this is one of my "to go-Amps" when it comes to heavy Shit, i will stay at FW17.03. Too much fun with the sound, much too afraid to lose it...
 
The model hardly changed from 17.xx. What did change were the default Presence and Depth settings. That may give the illusion that something changed but the actual amp model is little changed. Now, G3 sounds different so that is a factor as well but G3 is widely accepted as sounding "better" so I doubt that is the reason.
 
I haven´t played a real Savage, but I like the G2 Savage more than the G3.

In G3 the Savage sounds harmless, the G2 Savage was an unmistakable Amp with his own voice.

As Cliff said, the lowcut is deeper and Presence has changed by Default.

But using the G2 Settings doesn´t bring the touch and Sound of this amp back........too bad........:|
 
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Seeing how many people prefer the G2 Savage, is there a possibility to turn it into a FAS model at one point maybe?
 
I played a savage for many years as my main amp, but not as a metal player, I abused it for top 40 covers. Weird? Yes, but you cut very easily through the mix and it's easier to tame a beast than to imitate one.

The savage is far different from the later power ball like stuff engl developed. It's rather stable and clear. So the G3 model sounds right to me, where the G2 model never got my attention since I did not recognize my amp.
As it sounds now I'd like more channels of it.
 
I also think the g3 version lost something compared to the g2 version, unfortunately I don't have any old recordings. I will play around a bit with low cut and presence and see if I can get it back to where it used to be. For now it seems the fire is missing, this is the only way I can describe it

Gesendet von meinem LG-D855 mit Tapatalk
 
666was999 said:
The savage is far different from the later power ball like stuff engl developed. It's rather stable and clear. So the G3 model sounds right to me, where the G2 model never got my attention since I did not recognize my amp.
As it sounds now I'd like more channels of it.
Click to expand...

Not that far, as I can tell you ;) One of the issues is, that the amp Cliff bought is a newer Savage, the one I analyzed is an older style Savage "black corner" amp. The difference is used in both Lead Channels and is as far I can remember a little modification on the overdrive gain stage regarding possible grid overloads. On the older Savage, the 3rd channel sounded more of a Fuzz-type Overdrive than later Savages with the additional parts inside.
There are no accurate schematics available, since the most important parts in the circuit were not drawn out.
As told you at the german board, I don't have access to the amp, which belongs to a customer. Since I'm no longer working for their distributor (which has nothing to do, with my contribution btw.... more of jealousy reasons by some executive members of my ex-employer regarding my overall commitment for the company and their customers), I can see these type of amps not very often. Before I had them in 6 -to 20 times a year......

The only thing I also contributed beside the 4th channel was the "Smooth" option.

As said, the Depth and Prescence control, the overall NFB design is somehow special than most amps, due of the preamp design and the concept of the circuit (see above). Depth control is a switchable option on the real amp.
 
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This thread is very interesting. I use the Angle Severe and can say with 18 it has DESTROYED my main preset. FW 18 overall is the bees knees so I am rebuilding it and it is sounding more realistic but not yet the amazing preset I had. I can tell you when I finally dial it in it will be much better than what it sounded in 17.4.. it's just very time consuming.
Thanks to Cliff for inadvertently pushing us to evolve our sound along side the technology :)
 
I don't know which version cliff modeled. Mine was the version savage 120 with kt88 inside, built around 1995. It didn't have the mesa like growl in the lows, the lows stayed a bit cleaner than the mids and highs, so you could hear the pick strokes loud and clear even when the gain was high . But engl also built a savage se, that for felt much different. And the powerball series added growl.
Same happened to other amps they built. I own a sovereign e360 thatsounds rather clear and the later sovereign e365 that has that growl.
 
666was999 said:
I don't know which version cliff modeled. Mine was the version savage 120 with kt88 inside, built around 1995.
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Cliff posted a link to an ebay auction which I can see the silver metal corners on the housing it would be one of these newer builds. Mine I had in back in February 2014 is from 1996. The owner told me, the FAS version matches his amp pretty close. The Savage SE is not the same amp as the 120, they're different in many ways....
 
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