Front panel adjustment on the fly

Quick jump is useful too with the caveat that you jump to the last visited page of the block not a fixed jump location.

Still, if you understand it, it can be useful.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Cant agree there. the old FM syndrome..... if a real amp sounds great at low volume, they invariably sound worse when up loud - or rather, they may SOUND better (normally because everything louder sounds better......) but they dont sit in the mix as well. They are more often than not too boomy, and too piercing up loud unless they are dialed in loud.

BUT, as amps have knobs - its easy to push up the mids or dial back the bass. The RAC12 does ad that - and IMO is a must if you want to tweek on the fly easily. Not that it cant be dont one the AFX, and I almost never used the a/b/c/d knobs - just the global levels and EQ. The cost of the RAC12 isnt that high, when you take into account the overall rig cost (that is the % extra over the AFX/Midi board and monitoring you need already), but its optional so those using the AFX exclusively in a studio (so who are not likely to need the functionality) dont HAVE to have it.
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I've had this discussion with a few members here and I (think I) disagree. I have owned at least 50 tube amps and prob gigged with several dozen. Ive been using the AXE live almost exclusively for the past 2 years. Love it. But when I dial in a preset at lower volume, it is extremely tricky to translate that to the stage. I believe that is the FM effect--the same tone reacts differently to our ears at higher volume levels. A tube amp reacts differently still tho--the tone and feel of the amp itself changes when the master is turned up. It is literally an entirely different tone and feel at higher MV settings. Part of what I will do at sound check with a tube amp is adjust the MV to find the sweet spot through the stage monitor...and the volume levels are the same.

Had a RAC for a while but never really figured it out--TBH I was always afraid I'd frig up my tone and since I'm scared to death to ever touch the front panel of the AXE I sold it. A vastly superior UI is one of the reasons I'm actually looking forward to an AXE III.
 
tallcoolone said:
Ive been using the AXE live almost exclusively for the past 2 years. Love it. But when I dial in a preset at lower volume, it is extremely tricky to translate that to the stage. I believe that is the FM effect--the same tone reacts differently to our ears at higher volume levels.
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You're right: that's the Fletcher-Munson effect. And it happens whether you're using an Axe or a tube amp.


tallcoolone said:
A tube amp reacts differently still tho--the tone and feel of the amp itself changes when the master is turned up. It is literally an entirely different tone and feel at higher MV settings.
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Right again: an amp's tone changes as you adjust Master Volume. The extra distortion adds mids, and the treble bleed circuit rolls off some of the highs. That helps compensate for Fletcher-Munson.

The thing is, the same thing happens on the Axe-Fx. If you changed volume by using MV instead of the Level knob on the front panel, you'd hear exactly the same changes to your tone that you hear on a real amp.


Master Volume was added to amps as a way to get a usable tone at lower volume levels. But you have to accept a compromise when you do that: you lose power amp distortion and the fatness and responsiveness that comes with it.

With the Axe, you can dial in that MV sweet spot at any volume. If you've already found the sweet spot at low volume, you can keep it when you crank up the level. But you've already used up your "automatic compensation" for Fletcher-Munson, so you have to make some EQ changes to compensate.
 
solo-act said:
To the OP's point, the Axe-Fx rack has four perfectly useable knobs on the front panel, but they don't change any block parameters when in recall mode (on a preset, no editing) which is the cause of a solvable problem. *edit* Someone posted there is a mapping function - it requires per-preset mapping, so 80 individual mapping maneuvers if you have 20 presets. That jolted my memory. I tried this, and if I recall correctly, the screen doesn't change to indicate the parameter you're changing or by how much, and you have to go through a save maneuver, which is why I now remember abandoning this approach.

Maybe it's too complicated to implement, but if users could map one parameter from any block to each of the 4 front panel knobs life would be so much easier, and this might be a more user-friendly implementation.
  • Activate/move a front panel knob, the unit goes into edit mode for the amp, cab, drive, etc mapped to the knob, goes to the parameter mapped to the knob, and the display changes to spell the block, the parameter and a big number for the value. This is similar to RAC12 implementation.
  • Move the knob the knob a second time, either way, and it begins changing the value of the assigned parameter accordingly
  • The parameters autosave in 10 seconds unless the user presses "exit"
  • Done, Done and Done
  • In any other mode except preset/recall, knob mapping is superseded by normal functionality
Turning the 4 knobs in this mode wouldn't be global. It wouldn't change those parameters across all blocks, just the block(s) in the preset you're playing.

If you happen to NOT have that block or specific "knob" in your preset, the front panel knob is inactive. This encourages mapping of your most-tweaked, mission-critical parameters.

Having a fast tweak like this available is very desirable for gigging. All you need to do is watch Jeff Beck or Jaco Pastorius or others to see the usefulness of a 2-second, mid-song tweak. Plus it makes the unit much more user-friendly at the gig or in the studio.

Honestly, after seeing the RAC12 implementation, I'm surprised Fractal didn't implement something similar.
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Yes, yes and one more yes! Please Cliff! How much for one rib?
 
tallcoolone said:
I've had this discussion with a few members here and I (think I) disagree. I have owned at least 50 tube amps and prob gigged with several dozen. Ive been using the AXE live almost exclusively for the past 2 years. Love it. But when I dial in a preset at lower volume, it is extremely tricky to translate that to the stage. I believe that is the FM effect--the same tone reacts differently to our ears at higher volume levels. A tube amp reacts differently still tho--the tone and feel of the amp itself changes when the master is turned up. It is literally an entirely different tone and feel at higher MV settings. Part of what I will do at sound check with a tube amp is adjust the MV to find the sweet spot through the stage monitor...and the volume levels are the same.

Had a RAC for a while but never really figured it out--TBH I was always afraid I'd frig up my tone and since I'm scared to death to ever touch the front panel of the AXE I sold it. A vastly superior UI is one of the reasons I'm actually looking forward to an AXE III.
Click to expand...
Bluetooth ipad user interface would be amazing in the Axe II. I believe the Axe II is 5 years old at this point. Thinking an Axe III is in the next year, IMO.
 
Ideal: Utilizing A, B, C, D knobs times X and Y would give you 8 "quick" adjustments on the fly that would save auto after 10 seconds. Axe III please........
 
If fractal audio made a 1U or 2U control unit like a rac12, with like a whole metric ass ton of quick edit knobs with LED rings with a button below each that you could assign to wherever you wanted, I would buy that so fast.
 
I was starting to have a bit of buyer's remorse about the RAC12 because I haven't really used it as much as I envisioned.

Then I invested about an hour to program it so in the first page is like default settings (knob turns control the main amp functions as silk-screened onto the chassis), and a second page controls the most common things I need to tweak that I don't want foot pedal control for. These things include the mix level for reverb, delay, phaser, flanger, delay time, delay feedback, etc....

I used a bit of masking tape to add the appropriate label under each physical knob, and I programmed multiple knobs on the right to more intuitively scroll up or down between the "Pages". And I programmed every button to be push-controlled to save the changes. I tested this approach in battle a few nights ago (rehearsal), and I found it worked VERY well on the fly. In the past I can't change parameters fast enough to react to band requests in between songs or between takes of the same song as we are getting ourselves together with new sets of songs to play out. Now, I am able to react really quickly! I am back to loving the RAC12.

The only piece I haven't solved cleanly yet, is the workflow to copy/paste an existing patch and modify the effects just on the new copy. That way I can start in rehearsal with a good patch for one song, and tweak it on the fly as needed to create a new patch for a different song without losing my settings for the first song.
 
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