Freqout 4.01: Glitch-free Feedbacker Using New Optical Sustainer

Rex Rox

Rex Rox

Power User
(Sorry for this book in advance!)

When 4.01b dropped I noticed the optical sustainer compressor addition and wondered if it could make me happier than the Freqout stuff out there using the pitch follower and a synth block (pre 4.01). So I used my real amps and cranked them enough to get some feedback and attempted to hear the relationship between the higher frequency harmonic tones vs lower tones. I specifically tried to hear when each enters into the mix as an amp feeds back.

It was very unscientific (just by ear). But I thought I could make a stab using the new optical sustainer and a pitch block and avoid the glitchy behavior of the synth block/pitch follower approach. For context see Leon Todd's YT vid. The approach he shows kinda works. But I did not like how glitchy the results were. Careful muting and monophonic phrasing are required.

I feel the approaches in this preset yield much better results. They are far less glitchy and will even work (convincingly) with double stops and triads. If you go deeper with chord voicings you have to be more attentive to expression pedal adjustments to avoid pitch artifacts (that don't sound like feedback). With the quad chromatic (scene 3) it is especially important to back off on the expression pedal before you slide on the fretboard. But with a little practice its pretty easy. Speed of the pedal is important here. If you go toe down on the pedal too fast it will sound artificial. But backing off quickly can help add realism. Example: at the end of holding a fed back note in a lead phrase before starting a descending slide.

By accident while fiddling I discovered the new optical sustainer allows me to get natural feedback even at modest bedroom volumes (at least with my guitars in my listening environment). No pitch block required! This happens with just with my studio monitors and at very modest levels (conversational volume) - so VERY COOL! This example is in scene 4. Point your guitar at your monitors if needed!

This preset goes through a range of pitch blocks (by scene/channel) from Scene 1 Advanced Whammy with just a locked in fith harmonic for the feedback, to Scene 2 a dual chromatic with a 5th and an octave, all the way up to Scene 3 a quad chromatic with a 5th, an octave, 19 semitones up (an octave and a 5th) and 2 octaves.

The magic is in using your expression pedal to blend in the "feedback harmonics" (again pay attention to pedal speed!). The other trick is in the modifiers and how they map expression pedal changes to pitch levels. I tried to tune the pedal motion so you can get great results for the different harmonic tones thru the range of your pedal - but of course your mileage may vary. In other words you may want to tune the expression pedal response in the pitch block voice/main level modifiers to your liking.

The expression pedal only changes individual pitch voice levels along with overall pitch block level. Each voice has a different rate of change set in the pedal modifiers making the pedal very expressive (especially through its' final range). This means a little motion towards the end of the pedal throw makes a big difference especially for the higher pitched feedback voices in the quad chromatic pitch blocks. You can inspect the level modifiers to understand what is going on and tune them to your tastes.

Finally Scene 5 is a Quad Chromatic Delay pitch block with added LFO modulated detune for grins and giggles. It adds a little shimmery sugar effect to the faux feedback. Playing with the delays/feedback in this pitch block can also yield some interesting results.

So Happy Firmware Friday! If you loaded 4.01 today then give it a try and I hope you enjoy. I am sure the wizards here can tweak it and make it far better than my newbian self. If you do then please post it back here so we can all glom on!
 

Attachments

  • Freqout 4.01.syx
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@Rex Rox,

Although I've not tried your preset yet, I, too, was fascinated with the optical sustainer that can create a natural-sounding feedback at modest output volume levels.

I employ a separate approach, though. Instead of using an expression pedal, I prefer to use the optical sustainer's "Sustain" knob and assign a modifier to it. A Control Switch is selected as the source, with attack and release are set for 200 and 800 ms respectively. Nothing else. Auto-Engage is OFF.

This way, when one plays a note (or diad/triad), and steps on the control switch, the note slowly feeds back and increases in volume slightly, then decays/fades naturally while the switch is held. Although I've not tested this to see what happens if the control switch is released before 200 ms, it might be that there is some way of insuring a trail of feedback fade, instead of an abrupt one.

I imagine that with a little practice, it might not be necessary to insure the feedback decay trail, and learn how to work with the control switch instead.

The only drawback I foresee is that a control switch is present on each of my presets in the same location. What I've learned is that one can also employ per-preset functions and select separate control switch functions and not need more than one footswitch for a particular control.

The .syx file below demonstrates how I'd use a "D"-Style preset for clean/clean boost/crunch/lead with the optical sustainer active for the latter 3 scenes.
 

Attachments

  • LC ODS.syx
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bleujazz3 said:
@Rex Rox,

Although I've not tried your preset yet, I, too, was fascinated with the optical sustainer that can create a natural-sounding feedback at modest output volume levels.

I employ a separate approach, though. Instead of using an expression pedal, I prefer to use the optical sustainer's "Sustain" knob and assign a modifier to it. A Control Switch is selected as the source, with attack and release are set for 200 and 800 ms respectively. Nothing else. Auto-Engage is OFF.

This way, when one plays a note (or diad/triad), and steps on the control switch, the note slowly feeds back and increases in volume slightly, then decays/fades naturally while the switch is held. Although I've not tested this to see what happens if the control switch is released before 200 ms, it might be that there is some way of insuring a trail of feedback fade, instead of an abrupt one.

I imagine that with a little practice, it might not be necessary to insure the feedback decay trail, and learn how to work with the control switch instead.

The only drawback I foresee is that a control switch is present on each of my presets in the same location. What I've learned is that one can also employ per-preset functions and select separate control switch functions and not need more than one footswitch for a particular control.

The .syx file below demonstrates how I'd use a "D"-Style preset for clean/clean boost/crunch/lead with the optical sustainer active for the latter 3 scenes.
Click to expand...
I will eagerly try yours! Mine is not without pitfalls to be sure. I have been messing with it more today on the pitch block params. I think the 19 & 24 semitones (in the quad chromatic) were too much.

Even though they didn't get added until way late in the pedal throw - they just add to many pitch artifacts (if you bend or slide). I could make it work by backing off on my exp pedal quick, but it was far from ideal. It was less glitchy than the synth block approach but still no where near what I am hoping for.

So thank you - Maybe yours will hit the sweet spot!
 
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Rex Rox said:
I will eagerly try yours! Mine is not without pitfalls to be sure. I have been messing with it more today on the pitch block params. I think the 19 & 24 semitones (in the quad chromatic) were too much.

Even though they didn't get added until way late in the pedal throw - they just add to many pitch artifacts (if you bend or slide). I could make it work by backing off on my exp pedal quick, but it was far from ideal. It was less glitchy than the synth block approach but still no where near what I am hoping for.

So thank you - Maybe yours will hit the sweet spot!
Click to expand...
I think what makes yours different from mine is that yours is complex (variety is good) but sometimes when feedback is nice you don't need much else than what the optical sustainer already does...IIRC, it adds a fifth harmonic above the root note.

All mine does is determine a timeframe with which the harmonic note comes in as a swell and then decays. The reason I chose 200 and 800 ms is because when I hit the note and then step on the control switch, there is a slight lag time...just like how you might hear a regular note fade slightly before the harmonic kicks in.

The key is to time when you step on the control switch...not too soon, otherwise the harmonic will arrive while the played note is still strong, and not too late, otherwise the harmonic won't attain a good volume. I think a good measure of "when" is to play a note and hold it anywhere from 750 ms to 1 second, then step on the control switch. With practice your ability improves.

That's why I like the 200/800 ms attack/release timeframe. It makes the played note seem more real as it fades and the harmonic swells in and fades, as you might expect from a real amp when you step into the amp's sweet spots (you know, the places on stage where the harmonic nodes exist).
 
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chrisjnyc said:
Can someone post the modifiers they setup for this patch? Trying to make it work on the FM3
Click to expand...
Here ya are...I think if you build the control switch in this order it'll work...

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oconnorbro said:
Why can I not find this in my compressor block choices?
Click to expand...
Both FM9 v. 4.01 Beta 1 and v. 4.01 contain the Optical Sustainer. Simply select a compressor block, and once in place, click on the block itself, then select from the drop-down menu under 'Type,' Optical Sustainer. Take a look at the screen shot here and see where Optical Sustainer resides:

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Randalljax said:
Thanks for sharing this
I am going to check it out compared to the synth one which I thought was decent
Click to expand...
The synth one that a fellow from this forum built works OK, but the recent optical sustainer is easier to build and doesn't have as many "moving parts" to it. The trade off is that the optical sustainer adds a fifth harmonic, whereas the synth could be programmed for extra harmonics.

My personal feeling is that on stage, you'd likely only be able to find one harmonic "node" that feedbacks well. For that reason, the optical sustainer provides just enough to make the feedback sound realistic...
 
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bleujazz3 said:
@Rex Rox,

Although I've not tried your preset yet, I, too, was fascinated with the optical sustainer that can create a natural-sounding feedback at modest output volume levels.

I employ a separate approach, though. Instead of using an expression pedal, I prefer to use the optical sustainer's "Sustain" knob and assign a modifier to it. A Control Switch is selected as the source, with attack and release are set for 200 and 800 ms respectively. Nothing else. Auto-Engage is OFF.

This way, when one plays a note (or diad/triad), and steps on the control switch, the note slowly feeds back and increases in volume slightly, then decays/fades naturally while the switch is held. Although I've not tested this to see what happens if the control switch is released before 200 ms, it might be that there is some way of insuring a trail of feedback fade, instead of an abrupt one.

I imagine that with a little practice, it might not be necessary to insure the feedback decay trail, and learn how to work with the control switch instead.

The only drawback I foresee is that a control switch is present on each of my presets in the same location. What I've learned is that one can also employ per-preset functions and select separate control switch functions and not need more than one footswitch for a particular control.

The .syx file below demonstrates how I'd use a "D"-Style preset for clean/clean boost/crunch/lead with the optical sustainer active for the latter 3 scenes.
Click to expand...
Can you share the settings on the optical sustainer? My Axe lll won’t take the FM9 upload.
Thanks….Roger
 
moore-fiend said:
Can you share the settings on the optical sustainer? My Axe lll won’t take the FM9 upload.
Thanks….Roger
Click to expand...
If you read the thread several posts back, the settings are posted there. But to reiterate...A heads-up...the optical sustainer works appreciably well on its own, but the sceenshots below describe how a feedback control switch was set up. I'd hazard to say that the control switch doesn't do much more than allow feedback to occur and fade within the attack/release timeframe of the modifier, which may not be enough for some guitarists. The example isn't perfect, though in certain cases one might find that the sustain produced is modestly adequate for some. You might need to experiment with the release time to allow for a more natural note decay...

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oui7i1l.png
 
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i cant figure this out! i confirmed my fw is 4.01.

i dont have a sustainer knob in my optical sustainer window (using Edit). i have threshold, ratio, attack, release. looks nothing like the screen shots. the attack/release are set to 2ms/100ms and the attack only goes up to 100, so no idea how one is setting it to 200.

thinking im missing somethin'. hmm. figured installing a preset would be a piece of cake.
 
PSea said:
i cant figure this out! i confirmed my fw is 4.01.

i dont have a sustainer knob in my optical sustainer window (using Edit). i have threshold, ratio, attack, release. looks nothing like the screen shots. the attack/release are set to 2ms/100ms and the attack only goes up to 100, so no idea how one is setting it to 200.

thinking im missing somethin'. hmm. figured installing a preset would be a piece of cake.
Click to expand...
You are sure you have the correct version of Axe edit , it should be there as shown in above screen shot check editor ver and refresh after new firmware
 
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