Foot controller with integrated displays, good usability and support

Hi folks!
First post in this forum. Please be nice!
Would it be possible to name each scene and have something more meaningful in the MFC display?
Also, would it be possible to know how many scenes exist for each preset, say by having the red led lit above the numbers 2, 3 etc. in the same way an effect block has a red led when not active?
Thanks for your outstanding products and support. Rock On!

Hi Marco,

Welcome to the FAS family,

Here's an example of how I use the RJM MMGT16 to not only name my scenes, but also change colors and invert the scene when it is selected.
Same with my presets. I like seeing the name of the amps and I can see which amp is selected with the inverted image.
The MMGT-16 is so powerful, you can have different names for each scene, for each preset. You may want different effects for a Clean preset versus a Crunch etc...
If I want to turn individual effects on or off, I programmed a series of "Reveal" pages which show me which effects are available for the preset and which are on or off.

The first image shows my Preset number "1" , the "Deluxe Reverb" amp, selected along with "Scene 1 Dry".
The selected amp and scene are yellow in color.

Main Page_0.JPG

The second image shows the reveal page when I'm in "Scene 5 - Solo".
Compressor, Drive and Delay are selected, the other effects are turned off.
Filter 1 is grayed out, which means it's not available in this preset.
Also notice on the "Reveal" page, I can still change scenes and return to the "Main" page, when I press the "Jump to Main" button.

Reveal_Page.jpg

Hope that helps give you some ideas.
The whole color thing took a little getting used to, but now it's second nature.
Obviously, everyone has different needs when it comes to designing their midi controller.
I play on a worship team where we play different songs every week, so the "Songlist" or "Setlist" features don't work for me.

Jimnov
 
If MFC would have LCD labels above each switch, the MFC would be far better than any other out there. Most of the rest of the stuff I want can be solved with software updates.
Though, the wireless feature of upcoming new product would be quite nice to have!
 
If MFC would have LCD labels above each switch, the MFC would be far better than any other out there. Most of the rest of the stuff I want can be solved with software updates. Though, the wireless feature of upcoming new product would be quite nice to have!

From the verbiage they used in their promo, it isn't clear what the wireless is for. They talk about it communicating with other FAMC devices. Makes sense, I suppose, since the AFX doesn't (yet) have a Wireless capability. But I would guess they will charge extra for the receiver. And then you'll be tied to that protocol, so when Cliff does make a unit with built-in Bluetooth or WiFi, you won't be able to take advantage of it and will have to use the FAMC receiver anyway.

It seems like it would be pretty easy for someone to build a Bluetooth or WiFi MIDI transceiver, but to me wireless is a nice-to-have capability, not really worth the trouble in most gigs. It's not like I'd be able to move anywhere on the stage with a pedalboard velcro'd to my shoe. ;-)

And, as I indicated I my OP, usability is more important to me.
 
If Cliff were to incorporate wireless into the AxeFx it would probably be proprietary too. Like FASLink.

Bluetooth won't reach that far, especially not in a wireless-busy environment like a concertstage. WIFI won't reach 200ft either, as FAMC claims.
Easiest and by far the most simple and universal is to have a wireless unit at the axefx with good old MIDI in-out. I think it's the only way. Also because the AxeFx isn't by far the only thing it should be able to control.

But I second the vote on my FAMC unit not being the easiest to figure out. I'm a nerd and I can get around most computer and electronics stuff in a second, I've run Linux 5 years ago when it wasn't as plug and play as it is now. I know the inside of my laptop as the back of my hand with all the stuff I replaced on it, including soldering. I ran custom firmwares on my Android phone and replaced broken screens. Neither am I stupid, I have been a member of Mensa. Not that I fitted in there, but anyway. I got in.

But the LF... I wonder how anyone does get around fast on it with the huge lack on info... I got most of it to work, but it's been a struggle, and it shouldn't be.

And it pains me, cause I think the thing is brilliant.


I know everything jimnov wrote is possible on the LFs too.
Funny, I also play Worship, so does Rodney, and he uses setlists and I would love to. I just have no clue on how to start programming songs and setlists... It's gotten to be such a mountain to climb that I am putting it off.
 
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Chris or anyone who has the MMGT16,

I was thinking about the smaller MMGT10 and was wondering if any current owners of the 16 think the 10 would be good enough.
 
I wouldn't slam on Jeff or LF, because they make very powerful tools, and not everyone is going to know how to program it. There was a time that people would go to Bradshaw to do all that for them. He's busy, probably too busy, not sure how many people work there, but he should double it and catch up. I think you just need to mess with it a bit. I have the older LF pro and there was a curve, but coming from my access fx1 it was a breeze.
 
as far as the system - it's solid. we just got a beta that interacts with the axe even better and ron is quick with feature requests or bug fixes. it's not exactly plug and play like the mfc (though i've helped many people where it was complex still), but it's pretty dang close, and the computer editor makes it that much easier. i'd recommend an mfc for plug and play. but if you are ok with spending a bit of time easily programming, it's so much more flexible mostly because of the pages of buttons. having the lcd screens tell you what each button does is a complete plus of course - i assume someone could get used to blank switches and multiple pages, just remembering what is where. it also has axe-fx CC numbers programmed internally so instead of looking up what CC number Delay 1 is, you just choose from a dropdown in the editor, or a list on the unit itself. these are called "actions" and any button can do multiple actions at the same time, i think up to 20.

10 vs 16 vs 22 though is just a question of how much stuff at once do you want to control at once, on one "page." i considered the 10 due to price, but for only $200 more i got another row of switches. the 22 is too much for me, both price and size - i just don't need it. the 16 actually has 5 less buttons than an mfc (4 control switches + 17 IAs vs 16 total), but again, the pages and the fact that any switch can be anything really makes it more flexible.

so if you're considering the 10, you'd have 1 row of 6, then the 4 switches split by the screen. you'll definitely need a page change switch, possibly a page up and down, so that's 1 or 2 switches there with a global function i'd say. that leave 8 switches available at once for changing things at the same time. but then you have 16 pages of 8 buttons, so that's 128 things you can change!

other functions that do more with less buttons is a Hold function - a button can have a tap function (like normal) and then set it so if you hold a button, a different command (of any type) is sent. you can set the hold time too to 100s of milliseconds, so it's as short or long as you want - mine is set for 500ms. also there is a IA Mode, which is like a Reveal mode and changes Preset and other System buttons to IAs.

so you could do a page of 6 presets, then an IA Mode button which reveals Scenes. then next page is IAs for individual effects or something. you can limit the amount of button pages, so if you only have 2 button pages, a "Next Page" button basically toggles between those 2. really quick. the buttons are easy to push, no "click" necessary. the colors of the screens help you identify types of switches.

here's a quick look at my preliminary setup. it's in the early stages, so there's blank spaces. i'm not using preset buttons, i use 1 preset with scenes depending on the gig, solo vs band.

so my first page is a solo setup. most of the buttons here control a Infinity Looper controlled via MIDI. it's my Device 2 and has its own CC "actions" ready to go.

2015-01-16%2010.39.16.jpg

light blue are Infinity Looper buttons, the dark blue is a lead boost on the axe, i have 4 scenes there, a tuner (the tuner display works much better than the mfc and i don't need to use the axe screen to tune anymore!) and preset up and down for testing right now. the top right button is a system button that's a combination of "next page" on press and "ia store" on hold - this is for testing, but it was previously next page and previous page - it'll probably go back to that.

2015-01-16%2010.39.21.jpg

this one is my "what used to be on my mfc" page, kinda. the first thing i programmed just to get used to the mmgt. the record and play are the axe looper, and they used to be on the left side of my mfc. since i couldn't program the far right switch on the mfc (it's permanently a Down switch), i used the left side so the farthest switch was Record for my looper - always available, never need to go to looper mode. since you can make any button on the mmgt anything, i actually always wanted that function on the right, since my right foot is usually on a volume pedal right there, so not far to move. i have some scenes there and IAs for particular functions.

if you look at the delay and reverb switches, i have 2 functions there - tap turns on those things, hold changes XY state of those things. really killer function! also my tap button is a tap for tempo, hold for tuner.

2015-01-16%2010.39.28.jpg

not too much different here, but this is a first programming of my "with a band" page. i don't need the looper functions, so i added all 5 of my scenes (named to whatever i want) and different IAs. just wanted to show you can have similar yet different pages if needed.

if you're looking for a little bit more from a foot controller, you can spend some time programming, and especially if you want to control multiple devices, this is definitely the one to get. also get the phantom power box (the single midi box, not the double one) and a 7 pin midi cable.

it's funny, there's so much capability from the axe of course, but with my 1 preset setup, i didn't have enough switches to really access everything. now with this controller, i'm actually venturing out and using more effects and things in the axe since i can now control them. i'm also gonna setup some functions for my x32 rack mixer to turn on/off its effects, maybe mute channels or change scenes. so this thing is controlling my axe (with bi-directional messages), Infinity Looper and x32, all discreet messages - i'm using a Midi Solutions Quadra Thru to split things, just because the Axe sends so many SysEx messages from its thru. with the lcd screens saying exactly what each switch is for, and pages so i can arrange things nicely, it's so easy to have all this control. it even has 2 9v dc output for an analog tuner pedal or something. it should power up my P1 hardwired headphone amp for my in-ears, so i don't even need to run power for that anymore.

i guess you could say, i like it.
 
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I wouldn't slam on Jeff or LF, because they make very powerful tools, and not everyone is going to know how to program it.

I don't think anyone is slamming on Liquid Foot or Jeff. Heck, I'm rooting for him! I own one, and have a vested interest in trying to get the most out of it that I can. But...


But I second the vote on my FAMC unit not being the easiest to figure out. I'm a nerd and I can get around most computer and electronics stuff in a second, I've run Linux 5 years ago when it wasn't as plug and play as it is now. I know the inside of my laptop as the back of my hand with all the stuff I replaced on it, including soldering. I ran custom firmwares on my Android phone and replaced broken screens. Neither am I stupid, I have been a member of Mensa. Not that I fitted in there, but anyway. I got in. But the LF... I wonder how anyone does get around fast on it with the huge lack on info... I got most of it to work, but it's been a struggle, and it shouldn't be. And it pains me, cause I think the thing is brilliant.

^^^This^^^

And I'm betting/hoping that someone really devotes some time to doing the usability work and designing a version of this where "programming it" is the last term that you'd think of to describe getting it to do what you want it to. I'd actually made that offer to Ron early on in his development, but he didn't take me up on it.
 
The easiest controller and the most powerful by far is the Gordius.
But the lack of the little screens is limiting the setups.
If only Xavier made a controler with the same form and screens as the LF+ or RJM...
But it seems that is never gonna happen.
Ron from RJM has been looking at the Gordius. No doubt about that.
A while back I suggested using macros and now he's implemented it.
He even increased the number of songs to 1000.
Now all we need:
- tempo per song or even a set of commands to initialize a preset for a song
- variables
- conditional programming
 
And i know all of what Chris wrote is possible on the Liquid Foots. The things are brilliant. Some of it I even know how to program.

If only FAMC had some better documentation. Some programming examples laid out in steps. Some functions explained in examples (and in steps...). I don't want to be on a discovery trek with lots of trial and error to get to the bottom of this thing. I had an issue that took me hours and hours of trying to in the end have it solved by a firmware update. Don't know if that was a coincidence...

Still he claims there are thousands sold and only a handful of people having problems. Apparently Rodzim understands it with the same resources we have. It seems just handful including me that don't get it.


And if only they had a handle on the issues that keep popping up about the support system. Jeff from FAMC has had some family health troubles this year he disclosed at his forum but they are overcome and it seems he can now give it his all again. Let's hope it's in time. Problem with lost faith is it takes 10 times as long to regain it.
 
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I'd still be interested in helping out with support for FAMC. maybe I'll contact him again. They do look like amazing devices.
 
I'd still be interested in helping out with support for FAMC. maybe I'll contact him again. They do look like amazing devices.

That would be great, Chris. Ideally, the system adapts to the user instead of the user having to learn how to adapt themselves to the system, so (again) ideally there would be a pass at trying to make the interface of the hardware and editor more user-friendly and have a simpler mental model, then someone really good at explaining how best to take advantage of it (like you) would step in and have a smaller hill to climb.

The AFX is considerably more complex in a lot of ways, but I find it easier to use for the most part. Another good illustration is how the iPhone series relates to most Android phones I've used: the Android is actually more flexible, more diverse in terms of what it can do. But the iPhone is, because it is more constrained in terms of what it can do, more intuitive and "plug and play," which is exactly its appeal for most of their customers, and a big reason for their market share and leadership.
 
The MMGT-16 is so powerful, you can have different names for each scene, for each preset.

Yes, if you program a 'local page' for each preset. Otherwise each preset will share the same scene names.
Better if the Axe-Fx would allow scene naming (if possible).
 
That would be great, Chris. Ideally, the system adapts to the user instead of the user having to learn how to adapt themselves to the system, so (again) ideally there would be a pass at trying to make the interface of the hardware and editor more user-friendly and have a simpler mental model, then someone really good at explaining how best to take advantage of it (like you) would step in and have a smaller hill to climb.

The AFX is considerably more complex in a lot of ways, but I find it easier to use for the most part. Another good illustration is how the iPhone series relates to most Android phones I've used: the Android is actually more flexible, more diverse in terms of what it can do. But the iPhone is, because it is more constrained in terms of what it can do, more intuitive and "plug and play," which is exactly its appeal for most of their customers, and a big reason for their market share and leadership.
True dat.

My wife bought an iPhone after years of Android and is extatic about it. Actually mostly because of the Facetiming she can now do with her Apple-equipped parents in Kenya. To be honest, Facetime is way better quality than Hangouts or even worse: skype.
But me, I'm just now getting to terms with the limitations on the iPad I bought 2 years ago.

And Yek, again exactly the same the LF's do that too.

Actually, I have the LF programmed with most of what was mentioned in the MMGT posts in this thread. So I guess I know a bit about it after all. All the users of the MMGT say it is so simple to get around on.
I wonder what the editor for the MMGT looks like that those users see it as so simple and I am still thinking I'm in the dark about my LF? :)
 
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Even without the editor the MMGT is straightforward when programming from the unit itself. Of course much slower though.
 
I think I'll download the Mastermind editor and try it out, and hopefully it will give me an idea of what mental model THEIR developer was trying for. Certainly would like to see what else is out there that might give me a leg up on where I am at with my LF 12+, especially before I invested anything in their new line. I feel like I am craving by at about 15% functionality on the LF I have.

Would the MMGT editor give me enough info to gauge this kind of thing? If they are pretty equivalent in function but the MMGT is a lot more usable, I may be in the market. I need to be able to use the thing long before I want to worry about wireless, brightness adaptation, memory cards, etc. I want to play guitar, not program! ;-)
 
Wow. I just had a look at the video on RJM's website. That editor is humongously much simpler than the Liquid Foot's!
There's just a huge amount more possible to program on the LF's than there is on the MM! The LF is loaded with options and switches and menus and lists... On the MMGT they just aren't there! This is the Apple to our Android! And twice as expensive, so the analogy stands. Kidding. A bit.

Actually,. some things became much clearer to me about the Liquid Foot while watching the video on the MMGT. They are quite alike.
 
Indeed.
Way most of those options on the LF are not applicable to my situation and I believe many situations that are more complicated than mine. Just when stuff doesn't exactly do what is expected that you get to wondering what the freak switch do I need to throw to get it to work like I expect?

Would be great if Jeff could build a "stupid"-mode for all the people (like me) that don't need all of those options and an advanced mode for the couple that do.
 
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