FOH

andyp13

andyp13

Power User
Today messing about at home I switched off my Cab sim unplugged my FRFR and connected up to a 1x12 real guitar cab wow it completely blew the matrix away, I just can't get the Q12 to even sound a bit similar - I thought I was getting somewhere with FRFR but obviously not.

So I'm going to use a real cab on stage and going via cab-sim to FOH - not having an engineer makes me worry that the sound out front is as flat and lifeless as what came out of the Q12.
Does anyone have any advice for a good FOH sound.
 
What you hear from Q12 is cab sim and those include also mic and mic position and straight to cab is without cab sim and is full range of your 1x12. And the latter is not mic-ed and gives all the freqs.

That said, you should be able with cab sim and good IR (maybe mixed cabs and mics) & using the speaker driver options in amp and/or cab sim to get pretty close. If it sounds thin use a different cabmodel and look for other IR. last resort you can use EQ to boost whats missing.
 
Do you have a PA system where you can listen to your FOH tone? It's hard to get an accurate account for all FOH systems. so many factors come into play. Sub vs. no sub, 12" tops vs. 15" tops, size of power amps, compression vs. no compression.
With that said I would get your cab sound the way you want it, then send that signal with your cab sim to the FOH and start playing with EQ. I use an eq block at the end of my AXE's channel 1, which goes to FOH. This way I can find a happy place for my tone. I have it set to where my FOH tone is very close to my cab tone. I was fortunate because my guitar rig was right next to my PA.
I do things a little different and actually use cab sims with my real guitar cab. It just sounds fuller and more real to me. I'm sure my amp block's eq is totally different than yours.
 
I'm new to this modeling myself... I'm doing same direct to FOH and out 2 to a real cab. Getting great tones but don't expect the same especially if you use different cab ir for different patches cause your stage speaker will remain constant. Do your best to mix your patches to FOH loud. I do mine in home studio. Then use out1 eq to mix to your venue. You Wil still have to sound check and mix the channel strip to pa and room. I also add an eq to my fx loop out path to mix my 4x12.
 
Beyond said:
I'm new to this modeling myself... I'm doing same direct to FOH and out 2 to a real cab. Getting great tones but don't expect the same especially if you use different cab ir for different patches cause your stage speaker will remain constant. Do your best to mix your patches to FOH loud. I do mine in home studio. Then use out1 eq to mix to your venue. You Wil still have to sound check and mix the channel strip to pa and room. I also add an eq to my fx loop out path to mix my 4x12.
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Now that you mention it, I generally use the same cab for all my clean, crunch and distortion presets, with the exception of 1 clean tone and an acoustic preset. And since I am using cab sims with a real cab, I use a similar cab sim that compares to my real Celestion Creamback speakers.
 
Just hipass down to where it sounds like your cab. Or make an IR of your cab. A cab is a filter. or just use your cab. The benefits of FRFR are widely stated, that being said it's not for everyone.
 
I really wanted to use my FRFR as it goes on a stand near me and is very convenient as suppose to my guitar cab which stands on the floor tilting up to me.... I did two gigs with the FRFR and thought I had cracked it until I plugged into my real guitar cab, oh how wrong I was.
I'm goin into my studio now to see if I can get my real cab sound out of the FRFR (will try placing an eq after the cab sim as suggested) though I don't hold any real hope...
Will let you guys know
 
andyp13 said:
I really wanted to use my FRFR as it goes on a stand near me and is very convenient as suppose to my guitar cab which stands on the floor tilting up to me....
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This may not account for all the discrepancy, but it may be a contributing factor. Currently you aren't comparing apples to apples. The guitar cab on the floor is reacting with the floor. The FRFR isn't because it's on a stand. If you were to position the guitar cab on the stand exactly as you have the FRFR positioned, I'd expect the difference wouldn't be as pronounced.
 
Nowt wrong in using conventional cabs ... especially in smaller rooms.

As for a separate cab IR feed to FOH ... well just test a few out until you find one that sounds similar to your cab/speaker ...... or just mic the cab like you've probably always done previously.
 
Hundreds of threads on this. You will never get the FRFR (close mic'd sound) to sound like a traditional guitar cab. That's not what Cab sims and FRFR is for. FRFR recreates the finished guitar tone that is heard by 99% of the world on every studio and live recording and mid to large size live shows.

It's a matter of getting used to hearing the same tones that everyone else (including you?) has been hearing all along in these recordings and shows while you are playing. I personally don't want to have one tone on stage (just for me), and a different tone out front. What's good for the audience is good for me? I've been looking for this ever since I heard my miked guitar sound through the monitors and/or FOH at our first shows. It's always been this way. The artists have been the only ones that hear the raw tones. Until now............

If you can't get used to it, and some just can't, I recommend miking your guitar cab. Although that still gives you one tone and your audience another one.;).. But it will feel familiar to you.

There is no right way. Do what works for you and play it brother!:cool:
 
andyp13 said:
I really wanted to use my FRFR as it goes on a stand near me and is very convenient as suppose to my guitar cab which stands on the floor tilting up to me.... I did two gigs with the FRFR and thought I had cracked it until I plugged into my real guitar cab, oh how wrong I was.
I'm goin into my studio now to see if I can get my real cab sound out of the FRFR (will try placing an eq after the cab sim as suggested) though I don't hold any real hope...
Will let you guys know
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perhaps if you could try to describe in words the differences you hear between your cab and frfr, we could help more. as mentioned above, having your cab on the floor vs your frfr on a stand makes a huge difference. but it's probably that you haven't discovered the right IR for your sound compared to your cab. the IR is responsible for a large part of the actual tone you get. the amp affects more of the feel and specific parts of tone. the right IR is key.
 
I have been following many of Andyp13 threads.
There is a disconnect somewhere.

What is your expectation of the FRFR tone?
I don't think you are going to get it to sound like a traditional guitar speaker cabinet.

Like Chris said, the IR is SO important to you being satisfied with your tone.
 
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I've sworn we've gone down this exact some road several times already....

FRFR/Mic'd cab/recorded guitar sounds different than standing in front of a cabinet. That isn't going to change no matter how many times we discuss it in threads

Likewise, your never going to have that guitar sound you hear from a cab be captured when recording, or for the audience to hear via a PA system.

If you need to hear yourself via a cab and are okay with the audience hearing a different tone from an IR, then go that route, just realize it makes tweaking difficult


Perhaps try a different monitor, maybe try an Atomic CLR

I think mine sounds fantastic, and I wouldn't use a guitar cab even if someone gave me one. My tones sound good to my ears, they sound the same to the FOH and they sound the same when recorded. Couldn't be happier

Then again, I never really liked the sound of a guitar cabinet anyways. I actually used to put them in the other room, mic them, and listen to the monitor, as that was what guitar was "supposed" to sound like to me, its what sounded like all my CD's of favorite artist.

Cab in my bedroom didn't have that tone.

So for me, having a black box that gives me the sound of a recorded guitar, through a great amp, with nearly any effect I want is the holy grail.

Getting a guitar cabinet would be like tying one hand behind my back in tonal variety for me and I'd hate it
 
@andyp13 Maybe you could shoot an IR of your 1x12 cab and use that in your preset? Do you have an IR that matches that configuration? I would bypass any effects when comparing Cab vs. FRFR.
 
i think people who love a real cab should just mic the thing like normal. running a cab sim to the PA will be a different tone anyway, and way more work to constantly balance levels and effects and this and that. just focus on one tone - your real cab - and put a mic on it. it's worked for years and years, and sound guys know exactly what to do with it.
 
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I use a wireless rig (G-90). In a new venue, I go out front and listen to the FOH. I use the same preset each time I test the FOH. Most of the time, no tweaking is needed. Once in a while, a little attenuation or cut on my channel strip does the trick. I always use the same preset for the FOH test.

In large venues, I do use a stage amp for output 2. I use the effects return on a Line 6 Flextone II XL for my stage amp. I am not so interested in the tone, as I am being able to hear where I am relative to the other musicians. Once I get the FOH sounding good, I really don't care about the "stage sound", as I am really only interested in hearing where I am at relative to the other musicians I am performing with. I also always take a moment to meet the sound guy, and introduce myself. It is amazing what a brief chat and a word of thanks will do for the sound guy. I also ask them if they have any questions about my rig. Thankfully, nowadays FAS gear is much more common so a lot of sound guys are familiar with it.
 
Geezerjohn said:
I use a wireless rig (G-90). In a new venue, I go out front and listen to the FOH. I use the same preset each time I test the FOH. Most of the time, no tweaking is needed. Once in a while, a little attenuation or cut on my channel strip does the trick. I always use the same preset for the FOH test.

In large venues, I do use a stage amp for output 2. I use the effects return on a Line 6 Flextone II XL for my stage amp. I am not so interested in the tone, as I am being able to hear where I am relative to the other musicians. Once I get the FOH sounding good, I really don't care about the "stage sound", as I am really only interested in hearing where I am at relative to the other musicians I am performing with. I also always take a moment to meet the sound guy, and introduce myself. It is amazing what a brief chat and a word of thanks will do for the sound guy. I also ask them if they have any questions about my rig. Thankfully, nowadays FAS gear is much more common so a lot of sound guys are familiar with it.
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It's interesting that many here feel the opposite and don't care about their FOH tone and just need a killer on stage tone. Many ways to play music :)
 
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