FNG....considering AxeII and I have a trio of questions.

Steinmetzify

Steinmetzify

Inspired
Hey, my name is Scott and I'm in SLC UT...been playing off and on for about 15-20 years and nowhere near where I should be as far as skill level for the time in.:lol

As you can see by my join date and the fact that I've never posted anything until recently, you can tell that I've been interested in Fractal for awhile.

Got a lazy ass question for you guys.....I'm not so good with recording as of yet and I'm struggling with double tracking; a lot of the time I get into it and just jam and something sounds good, but then I have no idea what it was I played and no idea how to replicate it, and my recordings suffer horribly due to this. I realize this is only a stopgap measure and I need to learn this skill, but as I'm a hobbyist guitarist it's not really high on my list of things to do....;)

What I'm wondering is could the AxeII eliminate this? Will it record two separate tracks into Reaper if I want it to, one wet and one dry, that I could pan L and R for a stereo image at the same time? I'm searching around on this forum reading about this stuff, but as I don't really know the exact wording for the question I have I'm having a hard time finding the answer.

There are certain pieces of hardware that will record two tracks at the same time in a DAW....I've seen videos where this is done.

#1 - I'm assuming the AxeII being a much better piece of hardware will accomplish this as well, but can it do it into Reaper via USB or is that a 'mono signal only' type of scenario?

#2 - Also, is there some way to do this and then route it back thru the Axe to effect it, maybe just using a slightly different model for the double tracked sound instead of using a plugin, as the stuff on the Axe sounds better? There's a word for this, but it escapes me completely at the moment...

#3 - Is this going to be really labor intensive or is it pretty intuitive? I know that counter to all the talk online about the Axe, I'm NOT a tweaker, not for very long anyway. One of the reasons I'm considering this unit is the fact that users I know are telling me lately how much easier the newest stuff is to use, and how good it sounds straight out of the box....if this process is going to take me a really long time to learn or be pretty frustrating, then I'm going to need to know this sooner rather than later.:lol However, I'm not afraid of hard work, and if this stuff is something I can do after a few days of messing around with it, that's not a problem.

This magic black box of guitarists tools is my only real source of GAS at the moment and I'm trying to gather as much info as I can to make an informed decision as to whether or not it's going to work for me and do what I want it to do. Listening to patches/presets on YT and recordings on this forum it seems like it's gonna sound great and be fun to play, but I'd really like to know if these things are part of the feature set.

Thanks in advance and much appreciation for a great knowledgeable forum that's a blast to browse.

Scott

I'm having a blast running full tilt through this forum learning the slang and listening to the ToneMatches and presets on the Axe-Change from the guys that are kind enough to do them and include a SC link/YT vid of what it sounds like, so even if the AxeII can't accomplish this certain thing I'd like it to do, I'm still very impressed here. This is certainly an amazing piece of work so big ups to the guys for coming out with this idea and making it a reality for guitar players. The tones available as presets are really unbelievable from what I've seen, and the tone crafting possibilities seem to be endless here, not to mention the availability of the artist presets that are around here. Someone created a user patch that sounded like some clean delayed Devin Townsend stuff that I've loved for years, and it was all I could do not to hit eBay and the BIN button.
 
The Axe outputs the 'wet' signal on channels 1 (left) and 2 (right), and outputs the 'dry/DI' signal on channels 3/4.

Read the Reamping page in the wiki.
 
I did. It's the language I don't understand or am not familiar with. It didn't answer my question, and I'm unfamiliar enough with this process that I didn't understand it. Thanks anyway.
 
I'll keep my answer short!!
1
#1 & #2 - yes you can 'double track' in the Axe. You set up 2 signal paths in the Axe: signal 1 could be a Marshall style amp & signal 2 could be a Vox style amp. 1 comes out the left side, 2 comes out the right. No need for fancy re-routing.
Keep in mind that double tracking isn't always about playing the exact same thing twice. Some of the best double tracking occurs when there are tiny differences between guitar 1 & 2.

#3 - the more the dive, the more you'll get back from the unit. Yes it's gotten easier to get started quickly, but the more you edit & tweak the more you'll discover. Take your time & be patient
 
there's not much point copying one performance from one track and pasting it onto another track and panning them. if you want double tracked sound, then you have to double track the performance. there are things you can do to "widen" a single performance - use two amps and cabs panned hard left and right, use the enhancer to "spread" a mono track, but none of them will actually sound like a double tracked performance.
 
I have no experience with this, but wouldn't it sound more like true double tracking if you had a delay on one signal path that randomly varied in delay time? Seems like that would be pretty easy for Cliff to do and could be a pretty popular feature for those looking for that double track sound.
 
you can buy plugins that do this and also vary other aspects of the sound in real time, but it still sounds like a fudge. people have experimented a lot with dynamic detune and variable delay times on this very forum and nobody has come up with anything that sounds as good as doing a real double tracked performance.
 
What I do sometimes is to record a phrase maybe 12 times or so in one take. I then listen to each one to find two that are the most solid. I will then cut those phrases individual to 2 separate tracks and pan each one left and right.
 
Perhaps put some effort into playing better? There's really no point to doing anything unless you are willing to improve.
 
To sum up:
Yes you can "fake"a double tracked guitar with the Axe. But you can do this without the Axe as well.
If you're into recording and want that double tracked sound that you hear on records (typically it's way more than double tracking), do it by recording the part twice and pan them right and left. As Simeon said, this is "the" way to get it to actually sound double tracked.
 
simeon said:
there's not much point copying one performance from one track and pasting it onto another track and panning them. if you want double tracked sound, then you have to double track the performance. there are things you can do to "widen" a single performance - use two amps and cabs panned hard left and right, use the enhancer to "spread" a mono track, but none of them will actually sound like a double tracked performance.
Click to expand...

So basically that's what the Axe2 does? It's not a stereo image, it's one mono track copied and pasted into two tracks?

I get what you guys are saying and I know I need to practice more; like I said, sometimes I'll get lost in the performance and just have a good time and blast it and then forget what it was I played exactly. This idea was more of a 'quick fix for drum jams' type of thing. So to be clear, it's one track in mono and then that same thing copied to another track, so it's NOT a true doubled track, it's pretty much the same as what I'd get if I just recorded one and then copied and pasted it on another track? Thanks for all the input, people.
 
no, the axe is a true stereo device. typically a patch will consist of a mono section up to and possibly including the cab block and then a stereo section with chorus, delay, reverb etc etc

it is possible to run a different amp and cab for the left and right channels, which will give you a wider sound, but still won't sound like a double tracked performance. did you notice how i always use the word "performance"? it's because that's the important factor. you can do great double tracking with exactly the same sound for the left and right. it's the microscopic differences in the performances that gives you the "width"

also...if you copy and paste a mono track onto another mono track and pan them left and right, what you will hear is identical to the original mono track, so it's completely pointless (because it's the same performance and both tracks will be identical)
 
Now I'm rather confused. When you say 'stereo device' what exactly does that mean? It will NOT record two separate tracks at the same time, correct? It WILL record the exact same performance (to use your word) onto two separate tracks, but it's essentially the same track, one effected and the other dry, right?

I don't know if I'm using the right words here and I apologize for that. I'm just trying to get a idea across and apparently having a hard time doing so...but am appreciative of your input so please, continue if you don't mind.
 
it WILL record two tracks at the same time

they WILL both be the same performance

one side WILL NOT be dry

both sides WILL be wet

the effects are STEREO

sorry for the capitalisation, but i'm just trying to be clear
 
The Axe being a stereo device has nothing to do with recording two guitar tracks.
If you play through it using for example a stereo delay, you will hear the delay in stereo - different signals happening on the right and left.
When we talk about creating a "stereo" guitar track, this is referring to the recording process not what the Axe itself is generating.
Essentially to get a double tracked guitar sound, you would use a mono guitar signal from the Axe,recorded twice into your DAW.
 
simeon said:
i WILL record two tracks at the same time

they WILL both be the same performance

one side WILL NOT be dry

both sides WILL be wet

the effects are STEREO

sorry for the capitalisation, but i'm just trying to be clear
Click to expand...

Clarity appreciated man, no apologies necessary. Sorry for not understanding the terminology as stated; noob guy here. Thanks!

slinky005 said:
The Axe being a stereo device has nothing to do with recording two guitar tracks.
If you play through it using for example a stereo delay, you will hear the delay in stereo - different signals happening on the right and left.
When we talk about creating a "stereo" guitar track, this is referring to the recording process not what the Axe itself is generating.
Essentially to get a double tracked guitar sound, you would use a mono guitar signal from the Axe,recorded twice into your DAW.
Click to expand...

Gotcha.....so what's the point of recording two tracks at the same time then, if they're mono tracks? Color? You'd use the first and the copy with one setting/amp/FX and the second and that copy with different stuff to create the 'stereo image' we're talking about?
 
there is no point in recording two mono tracks at the same time.

you record two mono tracks at different times to create width

you record one stereo track if you're running stereo fx and that's what you want to capture (like a rotary, ping pong delays, big reverb, wide stereo chorus etc etc)

i can see i'm going to have to record you a clip...cos you obviously still don't get it...
 
I don't mean to be difficult, I'm just trying to learn. Everyone I talked to said everyone here was really nice and helpful. If it's a bother, don't worry about it. I'm sure I could find the answer somewhere else. I just don't understand what the other track is for, whether it's dry or wet if it's the exact same track. Why would you reamp the same thing if it's a mono track?
 
it's not the exact same track it's the other side of a stereo pair

go here - Fractal Audio Systems - Fractal Audio Systems Axe-Fx sound clips, axe-fx II, media, video, mp3, soundcloud

scroll down and listen to the axe fx ultra / standard demo songs - i have a lot of clips in that playlist that are all single take stereo recordings of axe fx ultra patches. listen on headphones are a good set of studio monitors and hopefully you will be able to hear what stereo means. it's not two mono tracks....it's stereo. yes, it's the same performance on both tracks, but the fx are in stereo. i honestly don't know how to explain it to you, i'm sorry
 
Steinmetzify said:
I don't mean to be difficult, I'm just trying to learn. Everyone I talked to said everyone here was really nice and helpful. If it's a bother, don't worry about it. I'm sure I could find the answer somewhere else. I just don't understand what the other track is for, whether it's dry or wet if it's the exact same track. Why would you reamp the same thing if it's a mono track?
Click to expand...

Stereo just means sound was mixed for stereo listening. Take a cd you like to listen to. It's in stereo, but may have one guitar players MONO signal panned to the right and the other guitar players MONO signal to the left. Drum fills may start panned right and cross to the left. This creates a stereo image. A guitar is a MONO instrument. To play in stereo, it's signal is split and fed to Chorus, a Delay, Reverb etc that out puts a Stereo image. A Ping Pong Delay may cross from left to right for instance. You could also split to 2 amps/cabs and pan these left and right. But, it's still the same signal, same performance, just passed through 2 amps to give different sound left and right.
The Axe can output a stereo sound, as well as a dry track to reamp at the same time. All will be the same exact performance, just processed differently. Stereo signal may have separate amps, cabs, EFX for the left and right side, dry track is just dry.

The point being made that you seem to be missing is that while you can record in stereo, and get a "sort" of double track sound, real double tracking is just what it says. Playing the same track twice, 2 different takes or performances. Even with the same amp and EFX, this will sound bigger because of the subtle differences in the takes. You can also process them slightly different to accentuate the differences even more.
Reamping allows you to take the dry track, send it back to Axe, and experiment with amps, cabs, EQ, EFX etc. to find exactly the sound you want to use in mix, as opposed to being stuck with sound you recorded. For instance, recorded track is great, but you don't like how Chorus sounds as much as you thought you did. Or you think track is too distorted etc. Reamping allows you to change amp settings, remove EFX., reduce EFX level etc. things you would have to rerecord to fix if you didn't have dry track to reamp.

Hope this helps.



Sent from my iPhone
 
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