FM3 muffled sound

Did you have both fractal and the Focusrite connected via usb? I had an odd issue my second day with my FM3 (which I love) and even though I had the proper ins and out selected in my computer settings/interface I was getting the same “muffled sound” due to phase cancellation with double input signals. I restarted my computer and it was all fine again. The JBLs although not amazing (I have them as well) still sound quite nice for the money.
 
AlanOU812 said:
Did you have both fractal and the Focusrite connected via usb? I had an odd issue my second day with my FM3 (which I love) and even though I had the proper ins and out selected in my computer settings/interface I was getting the same “muffled sound” due to phase cancellation with double input signals. I restarted my computer and it was all fine again. The JBLs although not amazing (I have them as well) still sound quite nice for the money.
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I used to have the JBL connected to my computer via the Focusrite but no longer. In the past I was using Helix Native and it sounded very muffled using the speakers but also with the headphones connected to the Focusrite. On the other hand the FM3 sounds amazing to me with my Seinheiser HD-280.
 
Playing through a monitor sounds generally different than through headphoses. Have you tried to set low cuts (f.e. in the cab section) to 60 hz or higher when playing through monitors?
 
macky7tyseven said:
Playing through a monitor sounds differently than through headphoses. Have you tried to set low cuts (f.e. in the cab section) to 60 hz or higher when playing through monitors?
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Good idea I need to try that when I get home.

The Helix sounded equally awful to me on both headphones and monitors. It was so bad I thought my guitar needed new pickups and I almost got rid of amazing hand wound texas special pickups in my tele. The only thing that stopped me from selling them for cheap on eBay was that I stopped playing entirely. Now that I have the FM3 w/ headphones I can’t believe how good they sound. I had been dreaming of this tele sound for years.
 
Willbnd said:
Good idea I need to try that when I get home.

The Helix sounded equally awful to me on both headphones and monitors. It was so bad I thought my guitar needed new pickups and I almost got rid of amazing hand wound texas special pickups in my tele. The only thing that stopped me from selling them for cheap on eBay was that I stopped playing entirely. Now that I have the FM3 w/ headphones I can’t believe how good they sound. I had been dreaming of this tele sound for years.
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And you'll get that sound out of your monitors too, for sure. But every preset needs tweaking till it fits your equipment and the volume you play with. If you change from headphones to monitors or to a FRFR cab, thats eacht time a game change. You always want to use the same setting when tweaking.
 
macky7tyseven said:
And you'll get that sound out of your monitors too, for sure. But every preset needs tweaking till it fits your equipment and the volume you play with. If you change from headphones to monitors or to a FRFR cab, thats eacht time a game change. You always want to use the same setting when tweaking.
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Let’s hope you’re right and I can get that sound. I like the idea of using the amp like real life so that means I would have to eq the global EQ. I’m going to try to adjust the JBL EQ first since now that I think of it I have the monitors very close to a wall so that might increase the boominess form what I just read online. I can also increase the high end on the JBL.

Thank you all for your inputs 🙏. Excited to try them out.
 
If you had same problem with helix with monitors and head phones ,could it be you guitar, tone rolled down , bad cord .I don't what you have for gear, just shooting in the dark here. I've been playing guitar for 45 years ,many amps ,cabs ,pickups guitars ,effects . and with the newest firmware I find, main tone controls ,a good IR, that's it, maybe try ,go into utilities E button ,enter use page button reset parameters, or maybe a fresh install of firmware. with a tele you shouldn't be sounding like you described.
 
EdgE said:
If you had same problem with helix with monitors and head phones ,could it be you guitar, tone rolled down , bad cord .I don't what you have for gear, just shooting in the dark here. I've been playing guitar for 45 years ,many amps ,cabs ,pickups guitars ,effects . and with the newest firmware I find, main tone controls ,a good IR, that's it, maybe try ,go into utilities E button ,enter use page button reset parameters, or maybe a fresh install of firmware. with a tele you shouldn't be sounding like you described.
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Yeah the tele should definitely not sound like this. I have two guitars so I know it’s not a fault on the tele itself because the sound suffers from the same muffledness on my Strat. I don’t think it’s my cable because I use the same cable when listening via headphones and it sounds perfect with my budget priced Seinheser HD 280. It’s not the XLR cable because thanks to Ugly Bunny I tried with the TRS and it was the same. I will try the remaining tests that Ugly Bunny suggested to try to isolate the variables. From what I know now I think the JBL are maybe boomy and it may be due to my ignorance. I have the JBL super close to my wall and I’m just learning that it increases by 6dB bass frequencies so maybe that’s the problem ? The JBL has an EQ on the back to solve this issue. I’ll try tomorrow if I can get back home.

The only other thing I can think of is that maybe the FM3 (bought in USA) has to be adjusted differently in Europe Vs USA because of difference of current but that’s probably just me grasping at straws here.
 
Speakers in any untreated/designed environment should be at minimum 3 feet away from any surrounding surface. That said, you will have standing waves as well, which will cause massive peaks and valleys most noticeably in your untreated/undesigned room's low and low-midrange freq response, so move around and note the differences (i.e. what's too bassy in one spot, might be too thin at another).

Also, confirm the tweeters are working in your monitors, as there might be a blown fuse and/or blown tweeter(s) and/or bad connection etc (play something else through them and maybe sweep a sine wave through them, which the FM3's Synth can do for you as well as any DAW etc).

Also note the higher freqs are much more directional than lower freqs, so be sure to be on-axis to your monitor(s). Note too that typical room furnishing typically absorb higher freqs much more than lower freqs, which can alter your perception as well.

Start with the speaker's Boundry/EQ's flat while the speaker(s) are at minimum 3 feet away from any surrounding surface, with your listening position 3 feet on-axis from the monitor(s), SPL at around 85db. Go through the correct factory presets for the firmware you're running, and if still not ball-park in comparison to your headphones, try setting the FM3's Cab's HPF to 85Hz, and it's LPF to 8500Hz and try again (and try different headphones too).

The above should get you to the ball-park freq response-wise, and after that season to taste...
 
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Well, it's Monday; I'm dying to know if you've diagnosed the issue, TC.

Another test I thought of. If you can record, record a direct signal from your headphone output, then a second one from either output (since you said both outputs sound the same), and then a third sample using a mic in front of your speakers. You may have to adjust levels to get them all similar, but DO NOT adjust EQ; post that sound sample here (or link SoundCloud, YouTube, etc.) and maybe we can see if we're all hearing the same thing.
 
I’ve just had time to try messing with the EQ on the JBL only and it’s made a big difference already. So I’ve done -3dB on what they call “Boundary EQ” (removes low end) and increased the high-end by +2B with what they call “HP Filter”. It does not sound the same as the headphones yet but it’s much more “normal” sounding to me meaning I can hear the tone pot sweep on the neck pickup. After doing some A/Bing I would say my preferred sound would be somewhere in the middle between the headphones and monitors. With this ultra minimal adjustment the monitors still sound too dark to me but I would say the headphones sound almost too punchy (More like the sound is on steroids if that makes sense). To quote a forum user named Nsurround “[The headphones] tend to sound brighter and have more punch in the mid to high frequencies”. This defines exactly how I hear the difference with the headphones but I’m starting to think it sounds too exaggerated...

Because I don’t have a lot of space I think this EQ setting on the monitors allows me to not have the desk far from my wall and still not have too much low-end but I’m going to try to move the desk 3 feet from the wall with the EQ flat as you suggested DJD100. I read your post after trying the EQ on the monitors.

Another thing where you guys were 100% correct is that playing louder with the monitors does help recreate the headphones sound… but I like to play quiet most of the time because I have sensitive neighbors. I still play at good volume once in a while but I try to keep the peace.


Now I think I need to adjust the Global EQ and find a sweet spot. I guess the frequencies I want more of start at around 1.5khz or maybe higher I’ll mess around. Also need to try the low cut on the cab, that could help.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Well, it's Monday; I'm dying to know if you've diagnosed the issue, TC.

Another test I thought of. If you can record, record a direct signal from your headphone output, then a second one from either output (since you said both outputs sound the same), and then a third sample using a mic in front of your speakers. You may have to adjust levels to get them all similar, but DO NOT adjust EQ; post that sound sample here (or link SoundCloud, YouTube, etc.) and maybe we can see if we're all hearing the same thing.
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I still have to try the speakers using the Focusrite with monitors and headphones, I’ll let you know what differences I hear.
 
Ok so big update! Again thank you for helping me out!

I just tried the 3 feet from any wall thing for the monitors (thanksDJD100) and boy does it make a difference… so that confirms that the proximity to the wall was probably the biggest contributor to the muffledness. I had no idea that it affected the sound. If anybody has this problem in the future that’s the first thing I would check. Now to be fair, I’m aware of cognitive biases so it’s probably best for me to check tomorrow because I may just be too eager to ear the difference I want to ear.

Then I put the desk back against the wall and used the EQ on the monitors to try to replicate the aforementioned sound and it’s not exactly the same but it does an OK job I guess. It does help and is very useful otherwise it would force me to EQ too much on the FM3 and I’m not that confident on the Fractal ecosytem yet so I think it’s helpful.

At this point the sound was less muffled than before but not completely so I did a HPF at 85khz and that helped a lot.

Now I was missing the juice from the sound that I love from teles and that I get (almost too much of it) on headphones but still didn’t get from the speakers so I started messing with the Global EQ and I spent literally just two minutes and put about 1.5 at 1k, 2.25 at 2k and 2 at 4k. I still dont have my computer set up with the Fractal unit so I really just guessed it but the juice is here. I here the twang and snap from the single coils. The tone pot now really does its job. At this point I’m confident that I’ll be able to enjoy my setup. I would have never guessed that a couple days ago, I was really bummed.

Now the only downside is that it’ll probably be too punchy and bright with headphones but to be honest because of my ear issues I can hardly enjoy playing for more than 10 min with them so it’s not a big deal.
 
A couple of things...

a) Be sure you are listening at the same SPL in the headphones and via the speakers ( see Fletcher-Munson ). It's easy to be louder in headphones without realizing it.

b) Be sure the speakers are not resonating on whatever you have them on (maybe foam pads or something underneath them if they're on a desk etc, though better if they have their own independent stands.

c) Realize that speakers will never sound exactly like headphones due to their design differences and the headphone's abilities to isolate from the environment, though the two freq spectrum's should be ball-park similar depending on the quality of specific headphones and speakers/environment, and the user's's hearing etc.
 
DJD100 said:
A couple of things...

a) Be sure you are listening at the same SPL in the headphones and via the speakers ( see Fletcher-Munson ). It's easy to be louder in headphones without realizing it.

b) Be sure the speakers are not resonating on whatever you have them on (maybe foam pads or something underneath them if they're on a desk etc, though better if they have their own independent stands.

c) Realize that speakers will never sound exactly like headphones due to their design differences and the headphone's abilities to isolate from the environment, though the two freq spectrum's should be ball-park similar depending on the quality of specific headphones and speakers/environment, and the user's's hearing etc.
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Good and useful information.

Here’s another reason why your headphones can never sound the same as your speakers. Your speakers play in the room that you’re in, with a resonant frequency that’s anywhere from tens of Hz to a few hundred Hz. Your headphones play in a “room” that’s less than 1 cubic inch in size, with a resonant frequency above 10 KHz.
 
The Fletcher Munson effect was definitely a factor. I now realize that I was playing louder in headphones than in the monitors even with my ear issues.

What I think I noticed as far as I could tell was that with the speakers far from the wall it seemed that the sound was clearer than with my normal setup even with the EQ to compensate the added low-end, the sound is still not as clear. To be honest I didn’t have time to try for very long and I didn’t do enough A/B but it seemed that way. I can live with it though.
 
It's possible that the issue you're having is not necessarily attributed to the FM3, but rather your speakers. Muffled sound can come from various sources, such as a defective or broken speaker, or incorrect EQ settings.

Adjusting the output level of your FM3 may help improve the sound coming out of your monitors. Many have claimed that setting it to +4db helps decrease any darkness in their sound. However, there could be additional factors stemming from other settings on your FM3 that are affecting the sound. Have you tested different settings and presets to find one that works for you?

You may need to make adjustments to both your FM3 and monitor systems in order to get what you want. If this doesn't work out for you, contact either your manufacturer or a professional audio technician for further assistance.
 
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Cortezz said:
It's possible that the issue you're having is not necessarily attributed to the FM3, but rather your speakers. Muffled sound can come from various sources, such as a defective or broken speaker, or incorrect EQ settings.

Adjusting the output level of your FM3 may help improve the sound coming out of your monitors. Many have claimed that setting it to +4db helps decrease any darkness in their sound. However, there could be additional factors stemming from other settings on your FM3 that are affecting the sound – have you tested different settings and presets to find one that works for you?

You may need to make adjustments to both your FM3 and monitor systems in order to get what you want. If this doesn't work out for you, contact either your manufacturer or a professional audio technician for further assistance.
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Just a guess: was this post generated by AI?
 
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