FM3+ Could this be a thing?

[jordikt]

You have that already. Wish granted!

No, my friend. I have the FM3, not the "FM3 SuperTurboProMKII+"

 

[jordikt]

It would look like a FM3. Just the insides would be different.

But I don't see this happening because Fractal wants to maintain the price point of the FM3. I am sure there are users who would pay more for a "FM3+" but as an entry to the Fractal ecosystem, the FM3 price point is important.

The current FM3 is a perfect product as it is. It would have no sense to remove it from the range of products of Fractal.

For me, the good idea is to add a product to the range: an FM3+ (or Pro or Turbo).

The new FM3+ would be with more power inside and more power outside. I would like a bigger screen and less buttons (but with more "intelligence" in every button)

 

[DJD100]

The current FM3 is a perfect product as it is. It would have no sense to remove it from the range of products of Fractal.

For me, the good idea is to add a product to the range: an FM3+ (or Pro or Turbo).

The new FM3+ would be with more power inside and more power outside. I would like a bigger screen and less buttons (but with more "intelligence" in every button)

I'd be happy with the same old FM3 with added DSP power, maybe the quad-core FM9 CPU and cooling upgrade, at a price point between the two (and with the USB-A port enabled for 5V power if possible), as this should be easily doable with some extra attention given to cooling, more vents and another fan or something?

That said, my FM3 with one external multi-fx device is getting the job done, so no worries!

 

[4CM]

Maybe an external solution with the USB output?. A little device with more RAM,CPU,..... to increase our FM3 limits?

UAD is offering external DSP for their Apollo systems. I like the idea that the system can basically grow with your needs without the necessity to replace your current system.

That said I think this will face at least two limitations here:
1. Limited bandwidth of USB 2 (UAD is making use of Thunderbolt)
2. Formfactor... An additional device will need room on the floorboard (which will reduce at least my unique buying point of the FM3 a bit). Luckily, for this I immediately have two ideas/solutions in mind:

• Additional device should have the size of the baseplate of the FM3 with four mounting spots where the FM3 feets are located to ensure stable stand of the FM3 on top of it. Or
• Including the additional DSP to the FC-6/FC-12 ("MKII DSP Power" ) and making use of FASLINK for data transfer and power.

 

[DJD100]

UAD is offering external DSP for their Apollo systems. I like the idea that the system can basically grow with your needs without the necessity to replace your current system.

That said I think this will face at least two limitations here:
1. Limited bandwidth of USB 2 (UAD is making use of Thunderbolt)
2. Formfactor... An additional device will need room on the floorboard (which will reduce at least my unique buying point of the FM3 a bit). Luckily, for this I immediately have two ideas/solutions in mind:

• Additional device should have the size of the baseplate of the FM3 with four mounting spots where the FM3 feets are located to ensure stable stand of the FM3 on top of it. Or
• Including the additional DSP to the FC-6/FC-12 ("MKII DSP Power" ) and making use of FASLINK for data transfer and power.

Cool, won't hold my breath though LOL!

Note that including with FC's defeats the small form factor desires of most FM3 users who just need more onboard DSP, or a small add-on etc.

That said, I doubt the FAS Link has the bandwith for real-time DSP (fast USB maybe...)? Note that UA is working with the DAW's Delay Compensation, which wouldn't work for the Axe's real-time needs.

 

[laxu]

UAD is offering external DSP for their Apollo systems. I like the idea that the system can basically grow with your needs without the necessity to replace your current system.

UAD generally is not aiming for things that require realtime latency like a digital modeler does. I don't see some extension device as feasible at all. Nor would it be cheap enough to make sense in the first place.

If Fractal wants to do it, a "FM3 Mk2" with the DSP chips of the FM9 would be it. Afaik nobody has opened up the FM9 and posted pictures of how it looks on the inside. That would give some indication on whether it's possible or not.

To me the FM3 cooling should not be an issue. It has a weird setup anyway with a single fan pulling in air from the bottom and otherwise leaving it to circulate wherever it can and any air is only coming through the side vents. Only the footswitch board could be considered actively cooled. Having built a pile of computers over the years, to me it would make more sense if the fan was on one of the sides to run air through the unit with heatsinks on the DSP chips but I guess on the bottom there is less risk of someone blocking the airflow by putting a FC6 right next to the side.

 

[kptkarl]

I sense the focus is on improving the code. Making it more efficient. That would improve the longevity and capabilities of all current product.

 

[4CM]

I sense the focus is on improving the code. Making it more efficient. That would improve the longevity and capabilities of all current product.

This was one of the first things we were told in Programming Theory Class at University: hardware getting faster over time is your enemy in writing more efficient code
Thus, I fully appreciate that FAS is addressing this in their updates and continue to improve code (and by that CPU usage - like with the Reverbs in FW5).

 

[BBN]

It's a computer, so the user installs the new PCB and recycles the old PCB or keeps it as a spare, and I figured $600 for the upgraded PCB and Fan, which would leave a nice profit margin if manufactured in reasonable numbers etc (I have friends who are international manufacturing engineers, so I understand the costs involved).

Warranty issues are the killer though, as they couldn't cover people screwing up the install (computer component mfg's don't etc), so are there enough technically proficient people desiring the upgrade sans warranty?

Probably not, so forget about it LOL!

As for a small company doing the upgrade via shipping, the man-hours do not make sense, so it's better for them to design a new product ("FM3 MKII Turbo Player Plus+" LOL!).

It would be a simple as swapping out the PCB on a laptop for a faster one.....lol

 

[DJD100]

I sense the focus is on improving the code. Making it more efficient. That would improve the longevity and capabilities of all current product.

We're on v5.x, chances are all the optimizations left are marginal improvements, though hopefully not...

 

[rossipedia]

We're on v5.x, chances are all the optimizations left are marginal improvements, though hopefully not...

The AxeFX is on v18... I wouldn't be surprised if there's still a lot that can be done with the FM3 firmware.

 

[la szum]

I know next to nothing, but please allow me the liberty to speculate. Thank you!!

 

[la szum]

If anyone is currently bound by the relative constraints of the FM3 when it comes to making music that is on them.

 

[frankencat]

Agree.

 

[unix-guy]

We're on v5.x, chances are all the optimizations left are marginal improvements, though hopefully not...

The Axe Fx II ran thru something like 20 major firmware versions then "reset" to Quantum 1 and had another 18 or 19.

There were numerous major optimizations along that path.

Similarly the Axe Fx III now at FW 18 has seen quite a few.

Cliff posted a few days ago about a new method he developed for modeling certain components which I suspect will lead to a major optimization across the current hardware ecosystem.

Keep hope alive!

 

[mr_fender]

Wasn’t the FM3 given the current specs because it can’t host something more powerful without overheating issues?

This ↑. The FM9 has double the internal volume so it can cool itself more effectively than the FM3.

 

[DJD100]

The Axe Fx II ran thru something like 20 major firmware versions then "reset" to Quantum 1 and had another 18 or 19.

There were numerous major optimizations along that path.

Similarly the Axe Fx III now at FW 18 has seen quite a few.

Cliff posted a few days ago about a new method he developed for modeling certain components which I suspect will lead to a major optimization across the current hardware ecosystem.

Keep hope alive!

Incremental DSP usage improvements at best IMO, as sonic improvements will always take precedence over reduced DSP cycles.

 

[phillyred79]

I remember a time when the naysayers of this forum crapped all over the idea of a larger FM3 and told people who weren’t happy with their FM3 to “just get an axe 3 and FC..” Sure enough months after the Quad Cortex came out with its numerous toggle switches and “decent” amount of power people clamored again here how it would be great to have a bigger FM3- boom Aug 2021 it is announced! Amazingly in the midst of a chip shortage too and supply chain issues..
Perhaps the FM3 Mk II will arrive as the new look of Fractal’s physical interface and UI with that added bump in power, but not too much..
With the new algorithm philosophy it sounds certainly possible to squeeze more blocks and higher resolutions out of the current FM3, but this will take months if not a year or so to make its way over from the Flagship Axe so I think a “quick” chip substitution and minor internals redesign to maximize cooling requirements is the likely road.

 

[raccoon]

I am happy with the FM3 as it is and I was aware of limitations upfront I bought it.
The FM9 is really an option but I also like the size of the FM3.
Escpecially because I often carry it around to several desks and then never use the footswitches.
In most cases when needing the switches I use the little MIDI-Commander clone from HB and sometimes the built in switches.

So for me personally I would like to have the FM3 with the board of FM9 and without switches and switch displays.
So in this version may there would be enough volume for cooling the CPUs in same sized device ?!
And I do not know the dimensions of the FM9 board, but many other devices I dismounted the boards didn't need more space, independent of version or power. (not only music-device related - more in common)
It is only the cooling that needs the space most times so may the FM9 mainboard would fit in the FM3 case ?
And as said, no switches and mini-displays may would give the space for additional cooling ?
(or watercooling )
Theese are only my thoughts and imaginations - may there would be no marked for this or expenditure is to big.

Not whining or complaining.

 

[laxu]

Wasn’t the FM3 given the current specs because it can’t host something more powerful without overheating issues?

The DSP chips should be rated for much higher than the about 50C temps the FM3 reports. With no direct cooling of the main board and no heatsinks I find it hard to believe that cooling is an issue. Let's not forget that the Quad Cortex packs more processing power into an enclosure that is significantly less tall and overall smaller than the FM3, with a touchscreen and 10 knobs/switches.

More likely reasons are that the FM9 processor wasn't available at the time or was too expensive for the price point they wanted. Obviously extra cooling systems also add design and hardware cost.