Fletcher Munson - Home Is GREAT! Gig is BAD!!!!!

The Soundshell

The Soundshell

Inspired
Well, finally in a great band, and had the money to splurge on the Axe2

At home I'm super psyched about dialing in all my tones, my dream sounds come alive, and I think everyone will be impressed when we practice at full volume.

When we do, the Clean Tones are freaking in credible

Crunch wise, anything with distortion is muddy and thin. Like a banshee with testicular edema.

EQing on the fly from the front panel is acceptable, and easy for me, but not always the solution.

When you are able to dial in your sound at high volumes ( I live in an apartment ), whats the secret to making really high volume patches sound great

I never intended to be playing in front of people, and was strictly a home recording guy. Now, after a few months, and a gig at 8:45pm in Detroit, Michigan, I'm on my knees praying for help

I'm lost .

Ive been using presets created by others, like the Petrucci tones from Clark with the IR's, and the Chris Letchford stuff. Hell, even the SIlent Underground Studio Metallica stuff is really great at home, and in recordings.

Live. I'm unbearable ( yes even for me, a guitar player )

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to get "This Tone" from "That Album". I'm just trying to not sound like ^&%#!!!!!

For the Record, I'm Using;

Ibanez JS1000, ( Dimarzio Fred, and PAF . 2001 model i think )
AXE FX2, with cabinet on
And using an Alto Powered 15'
https://www.altoproaudio.com/products/ts115a

Hear is what we've been doing ( Yes He's showing me where the notes are. Hes in a different tuning, and I just started taking theory lessons, and learning the fretboard properly about a month ago, so take it easy on a brotha )
The Bill Clements Axiom - Studio Clip 1 - YouTube


FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ( pun intended )
Anything
PLEASE!

Thanks-
Soundshell777
 
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Just some ideas, when you play loud:
- lower the gain
- lower the bass
- pump up the mids
- adjust the hi-end (highs and presence) to get a good balance
- tweak with the band playing
- lower the bass, cut the bass, lower the bass

:)
 
ThanX GIRA

I ( like most ) don't always have the luxury of being able to tweak my tones at full volume with a band. Its just not gonna happen.

Like I was saying , EQing on the fly isn't really a great solution, or at least hasn't been for me.
 
The only 'fool-proof' way is to tweak your tones at full performance volume. It's the only way to be SURE ....

But since you can't seem to do that. Try yek's patches as your starting point .... His are built to be played live and should give you a good basis to start from.

Good Luck !
 
Thanks R.D.

I totally agree. I just cant see my band agreeing to sit in a room with me at full volume and sculpt my tone in the band.
I know its how it SHOULD be done, but the reality of how actually annoying that is gonna be to a non guitar player, has been a VERY different story, so far in every other instance of any band I've ever been in.

Right now, I just went and got my FRFR headphones that I use for monitoring and mixing
ATH 50
ATH-M50 Professional Studio Monitor Headphones || Audio-Technica US

And, I instantly noticed the difference in the sound of a preset through my speakers at home
Mackie HRmk2 Overview
&
My Alto
https://www.altoproaudio.com/products/ts115a

I 'm starting to find some relief, by setting the Alto very low on the back, and taking a preset , monitored through the Audio Technica headphones, and slowly bringing the output 1 on the front of the AXE up in volume.
Then I KRANK IT if it sounds good.

This has ben working for the last hour or so.

Any reason this is working??? Anyone else have any idea???
Were the presets that seem to be working, just created LOUD in the first place???

Help again, drowning in tone meloncholy
 
bjjp2 said:
The solutions for cutting live are always the same. Less gain. More mids.
Click to expand...

I invariably find that raising the volume to gig levels makes my tone sound cleaner and less "hairy" than at practice level, and I often need to raise the gain to compensate. Perhaps someone can come up with an explanation why my experience runs contrary to the general consensus?
 
Soundshell777 said:
I totally agree. I just cant see my band agreeing to sit in a room with me at full volume and sculpt my tone in the band.
Click to expand...

Well ..., an alternative that could get you 90% of the way there would be to ....

Set up your giggng rig in your monitoing / practice room and then crank a backing track ( in your band's style ) and then play along with it. On a "macro" level, things like "Ice-picky highs", or "Boomy-lows" will become apparent immediately. You can have that part of the patch tweaking done ahead of the full band rehearsal even begnning. After that you'll still need to adjust effects levels and/or solo boost levels, but for that you'll need to play your songs w/ the rest of the band ....

One other thing, I used to take a blank note pad to all of my practice sessions. Rather than take up everyone else's time w/ my personal adjustments, I'd just take notes and then make my changes during down time, or after practice ....

Good Luck !
 
GiRa said:
Just some ideas, when you play loud:
- lower the gain
- lower the bass
- pump up the mids
- adjust the hi-end (highs and presence) to get a good balance
- tweak with the band playing
- lower the bass, cut the bass, lower the bass

:)
Click to expand...

Didnt you forget something about lower the bass? ;)
 
IMHO, a 15" Wegde won't help you in dialing useable High Gain sounds, and don't expect ANY Presets to make YOUR sound.
Also, like already mentioned, Bad rehearsals are the Most important and best way to get your sound, no matter, if you are using a traditional "real" Amp or the Axefx in an FRFR-Situation.

If it's Not possible to make this in a band environment, ask at least your bass Player, if he can play some Tracks and Record it at your home studio, because creating a guitar Sound without the knowledge of the sound of Bass Guitar and your guitar together is like flying an airplane with your eyes closed...
 
Not that this is a solution, per se, but if you lack the ability to develop your sound with the band, then I would analyze the sound by what you are (or are not) hearing. As a rule, if I have to dial up something to use untested, I will make it with a bit more mids and highs, and less lows, than sound good at home. While not perfect, they don't get lost in the mix like those thick, warm mixes that sound awesome in the music room. I'm using a 12 FRFR monitor, and it translates well to the front of house mix, which gets a direct send.

Too much distortion will sound like a fuzz pedal live, never a good thing. Think roaring Marshall, ACDC kind of tone. It translates well onstage. If you want a more present low end, the stock Soldano SLO lead tone (minus effects) also worked well live last time I tried it as a starting spot. I second what everyone else said here, though. The proof of the pudding here is indeed in the tasting and you'll have to find a way to work at volume to really know. Get a place you can turn up with a recording if nothing else.
 
Not wanting to tweak my pathces, due to full band volume is a big deal. I can relate exactly - take a listen to my "debut of preset tones" now in AXE 2 recordings. . . sounds very authentic to my ears.

So, I came up with this: micing my cab at the moderate volume level (1/4 up which is 3:00 position of my power amp).
I also feel having the gtr/my gtr going thru the pa, will disperse it evenly and thoroughly = Ideal!!
 
I've switched to Ownhammer IR's in all my live patches, they have chewier mids than factory cabs. But for basic rock tone, it can't hurt to try a JCM800:
Drive 4-5, bass 5, mid 10, treble 4,25, presence 3, depth 4, master vol 6,5. From the factory cabs in stereo, I'd take Basketweave TV (103) for the base tone, add some German boutique (48), or V30 (62) if you want a brighter tone.
 
Stringtheorist said:
I invariably find that raising the volume to gig levels makes my tone sound cleaner and less "hairy" than at practice level, and I often need to raise the gain to compensate. Perhaps someone can come up with an explanation why my experience runs contrary to the general consensus?
Click to expand...
Google "Fletcher–Munson curves" There's a lot of geeky info out there that will explain it. Basically our ears are more sensitive to mid-range frequencies at low volumes than they are at high volumes. As a result people tend to scoop out the mids at low volume to make it sound right. When you crank it up loud, the mids are then missing and your sound is thin and weak sounding. The overall effect of this shift depends largely on the type of tones you have dialed in. Super heavy sounds tend to mush out and sound weak when cranked, while clean tones stay tight and punchy. The more distorted the tone, the more harmonic content there is to get skewed by our ears' sensitivity inequalities.
 
Human ears are most sensitive to around 3 kHz, which just happens to be the piercing quality of a baby's cry or a child's scream. I'm sure that's no coincidence. If you want your part to cut through, try a little bump at around 3 kHz.
 
Based on the vid which I know isn't the best way to tell I would say a little more volume and less effect, your sound in buried pretty good in that mix.
 
Has anyone came up with some sort of Global EQ settings we can straight up to apply to a gigging setting that will somewhat compensate for the Fletcher Munson curve like the "Loudness" preset you find on some MP3 players?
 
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