Fitting in the mix

S

schaff

Member
Hey guys, first off I am by no means an expert on any of this and I am sure it has been covered MULTIPLE times before but thought I would emphasize it again based on how much it has helped me. I am talking about how to really fit in a mix with a live band. I will preface by saying that I am running my axe-fx straight into the FOH and using in-ear monitors(AKA no stage volume at all). Basically what I have done, on a patch by patch basis, is cut everything below 300 Hz and everything above 6K. This is because is in a full band mix each instrument, including vocals, has its own unique place in the sound spectrum. I am not a sound engineer so I don't know all the exact frequencies but the following is my main point: Do not be afraid if your mix sounds too thin by itself...AKA if you listen to it in your monitor without the rest of the band it probably will sound thin. However, in a full mix it will make the overall sound of the band soooo much better and you will cut like crazy!! And thanks to the axe-fx this is incredibly simple! I have had multiple sound guys tell me how much they love it when we play because of the consistency of my rig. NOTE: I have to identical preset banks except for the low and high pass filters...One for live and one for at home use. Don't know if this helped anyone but feel free to add any advice if you have it!
 
Yep, it's a self-explanatory, even obvious, point - but so often over looked

Everyone wants their individual sound to be absolutely killer in all areas, but there must be room for everyone else too
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I used to cut everything below 100 and everything above 6Khz, but I have not done so in the last few firmware versions. I was thinking of adding the cuts back in.
 
I'm HPF'ing below 100hz or so.
IMHO, 300hz takes too much meat off the bone.
I agree with 6k on top.
Everything above that, unless it's a glassy clean patch, doesn't generally sit well for me either.
 
You bring up some good points. That's always the challenge - how does everything sound in the mix?

If the kick drum, bass and guitars are all fighting each other for the same low end frequencies, it won't sound right. Too much top end can make the sound brittle.

I've found you can safely roll off everything below 80Hz (around the frequency of the low E) maybe as high as 250Hz, and everything above 10Khz (even as low as 6KHz as was suggested) - really depends on what else is going on in the mix.

Charts like this can be helpful also:

EQ by the Octave

Audible Frequency Range and Describing Tone
 
I try to remember, its okay for the guitars to masked during certain sections of songs.

There are plenty of hit records that have sections where the guitars are not the featured instrument.

Play for the song. Punch through the mix when its right for the show and lay back and have fun when its not.

Richard
 
Yea 300 is a bit high for me. I always start at 120 and depending on amp have made it up to 175. In my live setting I have played with up to 2 keyboards, bass, drums a sax and another guitar player and still be good to go
 
this is where 'user saveable' out GEQ configs could be good...

cos you could have a set of GEQ settings for different situations... one with this kind of cut for live...
another with a more gentral cut for home practice through your studio monitors / hi-fi
and another that's all boosted up for headphone practice etc..

this way you could quickly and easily dial the whole unit [rather than specific presets] into your monitoring environment
 
barhrecords said:
I try to remember, its okay for the guitars to masked during certain sections of songs.

There are plenty of hit records that have sections where the guitars are not the featured instrument.

Play for the song. Punch through the mix when its right for the show and lay back and have fun when its not.

Richard
Click to expand...

I am going to print this and show it to the other guitarist in my band!
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barhrecords said:
I try to remember, its okay for the guitars to masked during certain sections of songs.

There are plenty of hit records that have sections where the guitars are not the featured instrument.

Play for the song. Punch through the mix when its right for the show and lay back and have fun when its not.

Richard
Click to expand...

Maybe deemphasized, sure, but not masked, I would say - every instrument should have it's own sonic space (either in terms of dominant frequencies, in the stereo field, the arrangement or all of these).

I know what you mean, though - there are times when the guitar is the "featured" instrument, and times when it is not. It should still sit in the mix/arrangement without fighting the other instruments.
 
Add the cuts to the FOH global EQ and keep what you are hearing on at a fuller spectrum.
 
This is all dependent on the band and material.
I do much of my rolling off with the lo-cut in amp block. Besides the obvious freq effect, it also has the benefit of keeping things from getting muddy.

Messing with upper mids and highs can put more forward or back in the mix. There may be songs/ensembles where one is appropriate and the other is not.

I do make a point of telling the other guitar player not too worry to much about the lows and that the bass will have the effect of beefing up the guitar tone.

I think the important thing here is to remember to mix in context.
 
Definitely depends on the genre.

E.g. Ac Gtr on a country gig is very different than E Gtr in a power trio.

I find keys and horns tend to blur up the rhythm guitar in live shows more than anything else.

But always leave yourself plenty of boost for the guitar solos... that's when all bets are off :)

Richard
 
For metal and rock, I think 300 is high unless the you have excess "meat" in the foh. Entirely possible the room plays tricks in that area due to being acoustically under treated. Low mid build up is common. In a good room, 80-100 is safe and I tend to roll the highs at 10.
 
Ya i definitely agree that 300 is high in most cases but the way we are set up our FOH has a lot of low end to make up for it. But like a few have said before, it is a per-band kinda thing!
 
Very helpful tip, thank you! Never realized excessive lows or highs could be problematic in mixing, but it makes perfect sense (d'oh). Definitely going to try this next time we play live, which will then also be the first time I'll use the Axe FX live, ha.

Now, I'm fairly new to setting up patches (or anything, for that matter) in the Axe FX, but my method of achieving this is to put a PEQ block at the end of my signal chain with the appropriate frequency cuts, which I can then trigger via a different scene to differentiate between live/studio/bedroom/wherever situations. I don't know if that's the most elegant or simple way to do this, but I thought this might work well.
 
swervedriver said:
Very helpful tip, thank you! Never realized excessive lows or highs could be problematic in mixing, but it makes perfect sense (d'oh). Definitely going to try this next time we play live, which will then also be the first time I'll use the Axe FX live, ha.

Now, I'm fairly new to setting up patches (or anything, for that matter) in the Axe FX, but my method of achieving this is to put a PEQ block at the end of my signal chain with the appropriate frequency cuts, which I can then trigger via a different scene to differentiate between live/studio/bedroom/wherever situations. I don't know if that's the most elegant or simple way to do this, but I thought this might work well.
Click to expand...

There is no right or wrong way to do it. As I mentioned I use the hi/low cut in the cab. I find it works easiest but if you wanted to really wanted to fine tune a peq works great
 
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