First show with Dyna Cab - Bust

[Boomer]

Man, I tried this and it was pretty bad. I usually use my Yamaha H7s or cheap $100 Sennheiser headphones to dial in presets. The IEMs I use are Westone AM Pro X30s. When I use my IEMs at home my tone is quite shrill and thin

I've also had very little luck dialing tone in on IEMs. The way I dial in a tone is with studio monitors at 85ish dBA or calibrated headphones at 75ish dBA (I use a measurement microphone in one cup at a time then use one of those magic auto EQs thingies which work pretty good). My IEMs work great though, but are God awful on their own without a stupid loud PA in the background. So my experience is about the same as yours, shrill and thin.

 

[Morphine]

While I prefer the sound of the Dyna's, I haven't found the sound I had using LTV 7 IR - it works so well.

While it's fun to have/use the latest and greatest I think the old saying, "if it aint broke, don't fix it" often applies. Especially when it comes to a consistent live sound that you've already got dialed in and are happy with.

Not trying to discourage you or anything. If the Dynacabs genuinely sound that much better to you then maybe it's worth troubleshooting to get it right. I've found for myself over the course of multiple firmware updates that I am often trying to incorporate new features by making them sound exactly like it did before I updated. Ultimately winds up being a lot of extra effort to arrive at the same place I was before haha.

 

[CodePoet]

there was a high frequency hiss like halo that I just couldn't hear at home.

Were you on wireless when playing live? Sometimes wireless interference can cause a hiss.

 

[dr bonkers]

he already revealed that the sound guy is boosting at 2k.

It depends upon the bandwidth of the boost whether that would be a hiss boost, which the OP didn't reveal.

 

[touch33]

+1000 if you have good monitoring at home and don't notice the issue, then there's something going on at the board that is boosting the hiss.

Especially with the eq sections in digital boards, it's easy to overlook an accidental boost instead of cut with pages of menus. When it was all visual checks with physical knobs for an eq section for every channel, it was easier to spot an "oops" moment.

Don't want to be the "hammer in the toolbox", but I can't help but raise my Old SoundMan eyebrow at (and I'm paraphrasing here) "the new system was set-up by the JBL rep". I'm going to assume that somebody with trained ears has already played a well-known (preferably hi-res) music file over the system to verify that it sounds absolutely killer with a prerecorded music source feeding it. I'm also hoping that whomever dialed the new system in knows what they're doing and isn't "chasing the screen" by making the setup look good on an analyzer at the expense of just making it sound great...

 

[chrisxs2003]

A quote that sticks out the most for me is the same one I hear from our engineer all the time, "it needs to sound good in your IEMs first." That's why I dial tones using my stage gear - IEMs, No 1 axe, guitar wireless, and headphone output from my IEM transmitter. I also use the Axe headphone output and always check using jam tracks/original tracks as reference for how it sits. My tendency is to dial in too much low end given the IEMs aren't good in this range >>> thus low cut on the board PEQ

Yes, even with IEMs, on a loud outdoor stage they provide hearing protection more than monitoring for me. I bring up guitar in my mix and the rest comes from the mains, no matter the ear bud seal

I've been A/Bing with my original Legacy Cab channel and found the biggest offender in my preset is the Dynamic 2 mic on the 412 5153 cab. I'm mixing it with a 412 5153 Ribbon cab to balance and center it EQ-wise. It still lacks lower mids and body, but I'm making progress. (I know I could've done this during the show, but my rule on stage is no changing anything while I'm playing)

The 2nd biggest offender is my tendency to "normalize" a tone I'm listening to for a long period of time. I generally play a couple hours per day. I'm now thinking the first 15 minutes are the most telling before ear fatigue kicks in

I didn't hear the high end "halo" until I gave things a break for a couple days. Then, there it was. It sounds like an 808 that's set way to high, almost glassy

Again, thank you all for advice and guidance. I don't have it fixed, but I'm making progress. Next big show is in a few weeks.

 

[chrisxs2003]

Don't want to be the "hammer in the toolbox", but I can't help but raise my Old SoundMan eyebrow at (and I'm paraphrasing here) "the new system was set-up by the JBL rep". I'm going to assume that somebody with trained ears has already played a well-known (preferably hi-res) music file over the system to verify that it sounds absolutely killer with a prerecorded music source feeding it. I'm also hoping that whomever dialed the new system in knows what they're doing and isn't "chasing the screen" by making the setup look good on an analyzer at the expense of just making it sound great...

Thanks for your sage advice

The rep was from there to help set the pin spacing for the right depth of field on the arrays. I'm not a sound engineer, but that's my best explanation.

The system was dialed in using our normal pre-show sound track. It sounded really good. The drum sound, snare especially, was heavenly.

It was my dumbass at the root of the problem.

Edit; Just reread this entire thread.... so many nuggets of wisdom in it. Great community here

 

[jakel]

I probably don't have the best ears, because I find that my ears tend to be pretty forgiving of a guitar tone all by itself. They adjust to the relative brightness of a tone and it sounds okay. For example, my studio monitors are brighter than my headphones. If I change from one to the other the tone immediately sounds too bright/dark depending on the direction of the change. But after a short while it sounds "normal."

BUT, if I listen to my guitar tone AGAINST music, then I can hear immediately, and indefinitely, if it sounds too bright, too dull, has hiss, or whatever. I've learned this as a part time sound tech, too. Never EQ an instrument, beyond a quick rough-in, by itself. It's a waste of time. At least for me with my talent level. I'm sure those with "golden ears" can much better judge tones stand-alone.

Additionally, directly to the OP issue, I find that it is easy to miss certain problem areas with a tone on a given listening system. For ex, I would tend to dial in too much fizz using just my headphones (which are less bright than my monitors) because I just can't hear it as well.