Few questions from a new user

Jason Scott said:
You said:

"THEY would need to decode all of the meanings from the various IR producers AND change the IR name from that designated to it by the creator of that IR."

Which is why I said they don't have to change the names.



I'm neutral on wanting it, however I understand why someone would really want and find it useful for the same reason I can understand why it might be useful for someone to know whether a guitar has humbuckers vs. single coils.



I have no interest in creating it, just as I had no interest in creating an amp models guide, however I can understand why someone would want and find such a guide useful.



Alternatively, for those who are interested in such information, post it in the Wish List section.
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Except for the part I quoted separately in my last reply, I agree with all of this.

I'm done feeding this conversation at this point... Obviously people have their own opinions.
 
unix-guy said:
I commented on your specific post, where you mentioned a specific example of a cabinet. Nothing to do with anything else. Please reread my comments relative to the post I responded to.
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Sorry of we reached a miscommunication... Ill try to clarify my view in a conceptual way and in short...;)

IF we are dealing with sampling for the purpose of recreating the analog world in the digital domain i want all the relevant info including which speaker was sampled etc. just like i don't work blindfold at the studio when i am recording, I trust myself enough to know the truth.
The aforementioned number and letter designation that is vague is not appropriate for the task conceptually. I want to choose the mic, the speaker and the position based on knowledge. If it dont sound good ill know it... no worries...

Cliffs position on not submitting the info so you have to work with your ears, to me is in a way disrespectful as if im a child that can not handle the info and may stop using his ears... That is all in a nutshell..
 
dumbeat said:
Sorry of we reached a miscommunication... Ill try to clarify my view in a conceptual way and in short...;)

IF we are dealing with sampling for the purpose of recreating the analog world in the digital domain i want all the relevant info including which speaker was sampled etc. just like i don't work blindfold at the studio when i am recording, I trust myself enough to know the truth.
The aforementioned number and letter designation that is vague is not appropriate for the task conceptually. I want to choose the mic, the speaker and the position based on knowledge. If it dont sound good ill know it... no worries...
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Yes... I've been commenting on this thread and have read all of the posts. Again, my comments were to a specific post, not the overall thread. That's why I quoted that particular post in my reply.
Cliffs position on not submitting the info so you have to work with your ears, to me is in a way disrespectful as if im a child that can not handle the info and may stop using his ears... That is all in a nutshell..
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Your opinion of Cliff is your own. He has said the same thing on many other topics, including amp and effects settings. That is his opinion...

And as they say about opinions - they are like a**holes: everyone has one and most of them stink! ;)

The difference is, in this case, he is the boss... And his opinions determine the reality.

And with that... I'm out.
 
unix-guy said:
Yes... I've been commenting on this thread and have read all of the posts. Again, my comments were to a specific post, not the overall thread. That's why I quoted that particular post in my reply.


Your opinion of Cliff is your own. He has said the same thing on many other topics, including amp and effects settings. That is his opinion...

And as they say about opinions - they are like a**holes: everyone has one and most of them stink! ;)

The difference is, in this case, he is the boss... And his opinions determine the reality.

And with that... I'm out.
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Deliberately not submitting info is not an opinion, its a concept. the concept is that i can not be trusted with information to not stand in the way of my ears... Not much more to it...
 
unix-guy said:
Now you're just being pedantic...
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No, my comment was specifically regarding this exchange:

You: "THEY would need to decode all of the meanings from the various IR producers AND change the IR name from that designated to it by the creator of that IR."


Me: "At worst, they don't have to change the names of the IRs in the unit itself."


You: "You left out the part where I said why it's likely they don't"

From what post? You lost me. I honestly have no clue how that last comment ties in with the other two comments above.
 
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unix-guy said:
And without an addendum (as you mentioned after this), they would. Just because the creator of the IR provides the details doesn't mean Fractal doesn't still need to decode that information for each IR...
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The addendum would be created by FAS based on the information provided by the IR vendors. Obviously FAS had to be in contact with these vendors originally to discuss the inclusion of their IRs in the cab list, so it stands to reason they'd be able to obtain the applicable information from them if it's not available elsewhere.
 
Jason Scott said:
No, my comment was specifically regarding this comment:

You: "THEY would need to decode all of the meanings from the various IR producers AND change the IR name from that designated to it by the creator of that IR."


Me: "At worst, they don't have to change the names of the IRs in the unit itself."


You: "You left out the part where I said why it's likely they don't"

From what post? I honestly have no clue how that last comment ties in with the other two comments above.
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I quoted what I was referring to in my last reply. Both my comment and yours.

What I quoted of mine was from the same post you've quoted, but you left it out of your earlier reply.

In any case, I have no interest in carrying this further... Let's just put it to bed.
 
Jason Scott said:
The addendum would be created by FAS based on the information provided by the IR vendors. Obviously FAS had to be in contact with these vendors originally to discuss the inclusion of their IRs in the cab list, so it stands to reason they'd be able to obtain the applicable information from them if it's not available elsewhere.
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I guess there is comprehension problem here. I understand what you are saying. I agreed with you... But whether FAS has the information on the naming or not, they STILL have to make the translation for every IR in order to make this proposed list.
 
unix-guy said:
I quoted what I was referring to in my last reply. Both my comment and yours.
What I quoted of mine was from the same post you've quoted, but you left it out of your earlier reply.
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Yes, I think we all understand why Cliff chose not to add the relevant information, and that's completely independent of whether it would be useful for some users. I almost always agree with Cliff, and he's obviously entitled to think whatever he likes. In this case I have a difference of opinion, and that's okay.

unix-guy said:
whether FAS has the information on the naming or not, they STILL have to make the translation for every IR in order to make this proposed list.
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They would be doing exactly what people do when they decode the naming conventions from IR vendors. The difference is, FAS wouldn't be putting the burden on the end user to find and decode the naming conventions from a dozen or more vendors.
 
Haven’t read all the posts.

@dumbeat : you can identify from which pack and 3rd party the ir is and go to the pack descriptions, you could find informations there.
You can also bypass the cab section, record the amp without cab in the DAW and then use Two Notes Wall of Sound as a plug-in.
And if you’ve got a favorite cab and a studio, why not shoot your own ir’s ?

Hope this helps.
 
OldSnail said:
you can identify from which pack and 3rd party the ir is and go to the pack descriptions, you could find informations there.
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Most of that information is not available unless you buy the cab pack. He is talking about factory IRs, so unless he also buys the packs those IRs came from, he won't have that information.
 
unix-guy said:
Most of that information is not available unless you buy the cab pack. He is talking about factory IRs, so unless he also buys the packs those IRs came from, he won't have that information.
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Its not the end of the world, i just take it as it is and make sounds that i like. The engineer in me loves knowing what is what to the finest detail, but seriously this is far from being a real issue, only a conceptual one... Lets all just enjoy! Thanks for a great conversation.
 
I look at it this way...

If I want a great sound but am not trying to replicate a specific recorded tone, I would use an amp model.

For cabinets, I have some cab packs that have specific speakers that I would want to use. Isn’t the process of auditioning the different speakers when creating a tone part of the artistic process? I think this is what Cliff means when he talks about choosing with your ears instead of your eyes.

If there is a specific recorded tone I am after (e.g. Rhoad’s Lead tone on Revelation Mother Earth), it would be far more accurate and efficient IMO to use tone matching.

Knowing that an IR is a capture of a Celestion G12M25 Pre-Rolla would give many of us a pretty good ballpark idea of what we were going to get, with the expected variance being the mic model, mic position, which speaker, etc. But knowing information like mic model, mic position, which speaker, etc does little to allow many of us to understand how these factors will affect the raw speaker tone.
 
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Capt Nasty said:
knowing information like mic model, mic position, which speaker, etc does little to allow many of us to understand how these factors will affect the raw speaker tone.
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If you're familiar with the sonic characteristics of an SM57 positioned on axis in front of the cone of a V30, and those are the characteristics you're looking for, you stand a decent chance of at least being in the ballpark if you know that's what an IR is based on beforehand. It's likely a good starting point anyway.
 
Jason Scott said:
If you're familiar with the sonic characteristics of an SM57 positioned on axis in front of the cone of a V30, and those are the characteristics you're looking for, you stand a decent chance of at least being in the ballpark if you know that's what an IR is based on beforehand. It's likely a good starting point anyway.
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So the crucial word in what I said was “many”. I did not say that everybody would be unable to infer what they were getting with additional information.

The crucial word in your statement is “if”. “If you’re familiar with...”. And that goes to the heart of what I am saying. Some would find the information truly useful but many would not. Once you make a rule like a naming convention you have to manage to it. You have to enforce it. You have to communicate and co-ordinate with others. You have to develop and maintain documentation. You have to provide support. All of these activities would have a cost, and distract Fractal from their core mission of designing, producing, and selling their products.

The majority of players using the Axe are either bedroom warriors or weekend musicians. They are not in the entertainment industry. As I said such data would not be actionable to many and when weighed against the costs to Fractal, the value proposition to the community at large and Fractal seems dubious to me.
 
Capt Nasty said:
So the crucial word in what I said was “many”. I did not say that everybody would be unable to infer what they were getting with additional information.

The crucial word in your statement is “if”. “If you’re familiar with...”. And that goes to the heart of what I am saying. Some would find the information truly useful but many would not. Once you make a rule like a naming convention you have to manage to it. You have to enforce it. You have to communicate and co-ordinate with others. You have to develop and maintain documentation. You have to provide support. All of these activities would have a cost, and distract Fractal from their core mission of designing, producing, and selling their products.

The majority of players using the Axe are either bedroom warriors or weekend musicians. They are not in the entertainment industry. As I said such data would not be actionable to many and when weighed against the costs to Fractal, the value proposition to the community at large and Fractal seems dubious to me.
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Do you have a glimpse into Fractal's accounting...?;-)
 
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