Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

Sixstring said:
Given the price point, design and quality of parts that's probably as good as it's going to get even with a mod.
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Right on!

There is only so much you can do with a 153 watt FR-xx. (Yes ...one five three)
..especially using the original power supply, input board, and a similar layout (with a radically different eq design)

I can get the hiss noise floor super low, but I gained it up a little louder than stock pre for the public release. It is still a good bit less hiss than even the "fixed" stock pre ..but not dead silent.
 
I just pulled the trigger today on the V2 assembly for the first round of 100 V2 preamps. I also have on the way almost that same amount of raw PCBs That I can populate here while waiting for the assembly order. I expect to start filling waitlist orders within a week or so. I want to get some of these out in the wild ..and make sure that you love them.

The ones I build here by hand will start at $99... by start, I mean there will be an option to upgrade the ICs to BurrBrown Premium audio chips. This price is for waitlist customers only.

The ones being populated and assembled have several upgraded parts (like Nichion and TDK caps) and will be just a little bit more $
Those will still be a few weeks out.
 
mesaboog said:
Huh, 153w? These FR12's are only 150w?
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The class D amp module for the 12 is by Kustom (Hanser) it is rated at 300w at 4 ohms. They paired it with an 8 ohm speaker so it puts out roughly half that power.

The horn has its negative lead interrupted by a cheap soic mosfet in a de-pop situation that is rated to dissipate 3 watts maximum.

153 watts
That's the most wattage you can get out this FR . Period. Don't be fooled by the 1,000 watt bullshit.

Having said that...
these 153 watt FRs with the V2 preamps ..track very nicely with my 15 watt el84 BadCat . They are similar in volume when both master volumes are at 9:00ish or at 12:00-1:00
 
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WKSmith said:
Almost exactly like a hot 15 watt EL84 tube ampView attachment 136554
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Wait... What!?!?

How do you guys think the FR-12 could do in a band context, with a heavy hitting drummer?

Just 15W seems so low, but almost everyone that already played with the FR-12 said there's plenty volume available, so I'm kinda lost here.

I'm so not in the mood of importing this thing just to discover it can't keep up with an "overly happy" drummer in a live stage...
 
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davi_ssilva said:
Wait... What!?!?

How do you guys think this could do in a band context, with a heavy hitting drummer?

Just 15W sound so little, but almost everyone that already played with the FR-12 sais there's plenty volume, so I'm really lost here.

I'm so not in the mood of importing this thing just to discover it can't keep up with an "overly happy" drummer in a live stage...
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A tube amp like the 15watt BadCat is a loud thing. It will get down in a live setting with a loud drummer.

So is the FR-10/12.
Very loud little amp 🙂
 
Sixstring said:
If all you are feeding with the OP is the FR I would play with the levels on both the FM and the FR to get the best S/N ratio! I would set up the FM with the OP at noon and drop the OP output level to the -10 db setting and see how it sounds. At full volume the noise of the FR wasn't too bad without the added noise of the FM's OP! which at +4 db at 1 o"clock on the OP knob would be quite a bit.

Whenever you turn any amp all the way up you will hear it's noise floor to some extent and anything else that is providing a signal and it's noise floor will add to it no matter how small it is.

Given the price point, design and quality of parts that's probably as good as it's going to get even with a mod.
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Seems like +4 output sounds the best, to me.
 
WKSmith said:
A tube amp like the 15watt BadCat is a loud thing. It will get down in a live setting with a loud drummer.

So is the FR-10/12.
Very loud little amp 🙂
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It's reassuring to hear that because I'm not a tube amp expert, but I've sometimes played with a 20w tube amp that had problems with some drummers...

In the other hand, I know that not all amps rated at the same power level are equally loud, and I've never seen a Bad Cat in person... So I though it was better to ask here to the more experienced ones
 
davi_ssilva said:
It's reassuring to hear that because I'm not a tube amp expert, but I've sometimes played with a 20w tube amp that had problems with some drummers...
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Not all speakers have the same efficiency in creating sound from a given power input. This is usually measured as dB at 1W at 1M distance from the front of the speaker, and may be found in specifications sheets for the speaker, if they can be found. EVM12L specifications state 103dB @ 1W/1m, for example.

davi_ssilva said:
In the other hand, I know that not all amps rated at the same power level are equally loud, and I've never seen a Bad Cat in person... So I though it was better to ask here to the more experienced ones
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Joe Bfstplk said:
Not all speakers have the same efficiency in creating sound from a given power input. This is usually measured as dB at 1W at 1M distance from the front of the speaker, and may be found in specifications sheets for the speaker, if they can be found. EVM12L specifications state 103dB @ 1W/1m, for example.
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Cool, I didn't even know I could search for this kind of info in an objective way instead of blindly trust some guy's opinion on YouTube :sweatsmile:
 
davi_ssilva said:
It's reassuring to hear that because I'm not a tube amp expert, but I've sometimes played with a 20w tube amp that had problems with some drummers...

In the other hand, I know that not all amps rated at the same power level are equally loud, and I've never seen a Bad Cat in person... So I though it was better to ask here to the more experienced ones
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If you need clean cleans yes 20w may struggle sometimes. If you dont, 99% chance you can overpower a drummer lol. Many factors.

I think these can use tilt-back legs which i suggest if it seems to be struggling.
 
davi_ssilva said:
It's reassuring to hear that because I'm not a tube amp expert, but I've sometimes played with a 20w tube amp that had problems with some drummers...

In the other hand, I know that not all amps rated at the same power level are equally loud, and I've never seen a Bad Cat in person... So I though it was better to ask here to the more experienced ones
Click to expand...
The difference between a 20w amp and a 100w amp sound level-wise isn't nearly as much as you might think. Because 100w is 5x more than 20w, people tend to think the 100w amp will be 5x as loud. Its actually not even 2x as loud in most cases.

Wattage ratings in amps if anything have more to do with clean headroom than outright volume it seems.

Also has to do with the way the amp is wired. Mesa Boogie amps tend to be extra loud for their wattage rating. Some other amps are the opposite.
 
davi_ssilva said:
It's reassuring to hear that because I'm not a tube amp expert, but I've sometimes played with a 20w tube amp that had problems with some drummers...
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Heh. I've had drummers complain my 12 watt Tone King Falcon is too loud. Its big brother at 22 watts is a tiny bit louder and really got a drummer complaining; I think he was upset that something else was keeping up with him.
 
WKSmith said:
I just pulled the trigger today on the V2 assembly for the first round of 100 V2 preamps. I also have on the way almost that same amount of raw PCBs That I can populate here while waiting for the assembly order. I expect to start filling waitlist orders within a week or so. I want to get some of these out in the wild ..and make sure that you love them.

The ones I build here by hand will start at $99... by start, I mean there will be an option to upgrade the ICs to BurrBrown Premium audio chips. This price is for waitlist customers only.

The ones being populated and assembled have several upgraded parts (like Nichion and TDK caps) and will be just a little bit more $
Those will still be a few weeks out.
Click to expand...
Make sure you let me know about the upgrade price…I’m all in. :)
 
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