Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

WKSmith said:
No they are old school analog! PTH full size components... like back when stuff sounded great. Way back before surface mount toaster oven tech made the components cheaper than a grain of rice in china.

This may be the last piece of vintage Audio gear mass produced the old way.

God bless 'em
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I’ve trusted digital from Fractal….but this analog box is yet another reason this is such a great product.
 
marsonic said:
Honestly, the EQ Bypass switch is probably the most intriguing option for me. I think I said it on TGF, but....Fractal already has like a dozen completely noise-free EQs I can apply to the signal going to the cab, and it's not particularly hard to figure out routing so it doesn't affect FOH or recording unless you want it to...having it there is just more knobs to get bumped, screw up your sound, and perhaps not notice. And, at the same time, a little 3-band and a cut isn't really enough to actually tune it to a room if you want to do that. So...I don't see that much value in it. Plus, when I played it, I liked how it sounded when set "flat" anyway.
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^THIS^

I don't want multiple places to adjust the sound, the Fractal is more than capable to handle that task. I just want something that transparently reproduces the sound and then gets out of the way. If something can do that, and can give me enough dispersion to work in the spaces I need it to work in then I'd be happy.

The Fender cabs are intriguing and it's possible I'll wander past one of the local big-box stores to see what they sound and heft like and whether they'd be a good adjutant to the PXM or a full replacement.
 
I emailed Fender asking them specifically if they planned to correct the hissing issue.. they sent me this...

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out.

This amplifier creates 1000 Watts of audio output. At “idle”, the level of the background noise is greater than typical guitar amplifiers. These FRs also have a 1-inch high-frequency driver, something commonly found on bass cabs that produce a similar effect. The FR-12 cab is designed for stage use and so outputs an immense amount of sonic power.

If interested in placing an order direct please let us know:
 
WKSmith said:
So they are saying it's a Kustom bass amp.

And a bunch of marketing fluffy stuff and BS
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yup.. also, its designed for stage use.. so don't think about using it in a studio or quiet room. only use it a room where the hiss is covered up by ambient noise. ridiculous. I own a Roland Blues Cube Artist, its as quiet as a mouse... A Boss Kantana, quiet... A JBL 610 that I use with my FM9, zero noise.
 
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Did the +4 / -10 gain reduction switch.
-10 is stock +4 drops the gain on amp stage 2 to perfectly match the peak to peak voltage of a 1kHz sine wave at -10dB with a +4 signal.

Now the input can get slammed without hitting the rails and clipping. Plus the small hiss is almost eliminated.

The big hiss is waiting on parts.

IMG_1112.jpeg

Another crap phone video

 
All we really need is a parts list and pcb’s plus layout and schematic. I’m going to buy one of these. 1 because aside from the hiss everyone says it’s sounds great. 2 because they just look sexy, like a nice combo amp. So if you @WKSmith finalize a design and get some boards, I would be more than happy to make it worth your while.
 
JustCuz said:
I emailed Fender asking them specifically if they planned to correct the hissing issue.. they sent me this...

Hello,

Thanks for reaching out.

This amplifier creates 1000 Watts of audio output. At “idle”, the level of the background noise is greater than typical guitar amplifiers. These FRs also have a 1-inch high-frequency driver, something commonly found on bass cabs that produce a similar effect. The FR-12 cab is designed for stage use and so outputs an immense amount of sonic power.

If interested in placing an order direct please let us know:
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And so they are out of touch with what people who use modelers really want, the people who are the direct consumers for the FRFR cabinets? It sounds like that to me.

And it’s the response I’d expect from them.
 
WKSmith said:
I think they might like to hear the result of saving them some money by killing off the hiss with a V2 preamp.

I bet they could put some marketing spin on it pretty quick.
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I’m not sure they’d embrace the changes given that response, because it’s embarrassing to them to have their corporate ways exposed as being inefficient and overly costly. That response is laughable.

Just move on and design a good replacement. You have already designed a better solution, you can show their work isn’t sufficient and yours is superior. I don’t know if it’s patentable, but yours is definitely better than theirs. Find a good intellectual property attorney, and talk to them. You have done an amazing job, so let’s see where it can go.

Maybe do a cabinet with a single 10” and a 12”. :)

Seriously, you have done an incredible job diagnosing their issues. My hat’s off, and I am immensely impressed!
 
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WKSmith said:
I think they might like to hear the result of saving them some money by killing off the hiss with a V2 preamp.

I bet they could put some marketing spin on it pretty quick.
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The tricky part is getting in touch with the right people. An underpaid middlemen customer service rep likely wont care or even understand what you are trying to pitch...
 
WKSmith said:
Did the +4 / -10 gain reduction switch.
-10 is stock +4 drops the gain on amp stage 2 to perfectly match the peak to peak voltage of a 1kHz sine wave at -10dB with a +4 signal.

Now the input can get slammed without hitting the rails and clipping. Plus the small hiss is almost eliminated.

The big hiss is waiting on parts.

View attachment 128641

Another crap phone video

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bravo, well done.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
I’m not sure they’d embrace the changes given that response, because it’s embarrassing to them to have their corporate ways exposed as being inefficient and overly costly. That response is laughable.

Just move on and design a good replacement. You have already designed a better solution, you can show their work isn’t sufficient and yours is superior. I don’t know if it’s patentable, but yours is definitely better than theirs. Find a good intellectual property attorney, and talk to them. You have done an amazing job, so let’s see where it can go.

Maybe do a cabinet with a single 10” and a 12”. :)

Seriously, you have done an incredible job diagnosing their issues. My hat’s off, and I am immensely impressed!
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Thank you !
It's not patentable. I think I would like to give them a chance to fix the issue for all of us (maybe even under warranty) and in all the FR-12 future releases.

I have licensed a different preamp and eq design to another company, I have built preamps for other companies with their branding on them, and licensed a tool design (that I did patent) to a very big company. I'm comfortable in a board room setting. I would prefer to not take on production, sourcing parts, deadlines vs. supply chain issues, shipping, packaging, marketing, customer support. I retired from that years ago for health reasons.

If I build boards here, there is nothing to stop FMIC or anyone else from just buying one and borrowing any design elements they like.

This eq has not been seen in the industry, textbooks, or in Texas Instruments white papers. If anything, I would like Fender's lawyers to help protect the design 😉
 
So the big question is.... for those of us who bought one recently and are still within the return window... do we send it back and wait for an improvement? Or trust that the warranty will take care of it if it's truly something Fender didn't intend? I don't think there's anything comparable in the price range. Mine does have a hiss that's slightly less than my Deluxe Reverb. It doesn't kill me but of course, I'd like it to be quieter, especially as the majority of the time I'm using it in my quiet office without anyone else playing with me. I wonder if it would even bother me had I not run into all these posts. @WKSmith, so grateful!
 
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I don't think they can spin enough of these laughable press releases gaslighting us customers about how FRFR works
... to offset the large amount of returns and a giant warehouse full of used amps returned to GC and sweetwater they will surely have after Black Friday and Christmas. And that is tons of return shipping someone has to write off.

They could be turned into Bstock with a new V2 preamp and re-sold. And the problem solved permanently with a solution that saves them a large chunk of their parts cost.

And any repair shop could drop a new board in in about 5 minutes for warranty replacement.

Seems like a no-brainer.
 
WKSmith said:
I don't think they can spin enough of these laughable press releases gaslighting us customers about how FRFR works
... to offset the large amount of returns and a giant warehouse full of used amps returned to GC and sweetwater they will surely have after Black Friday and Christmas. And that is tons of return shipping someone has to write off.

They could be turned into Bstock with a new V2 preamp and re-sold. And the problem solved permanently with a solution that saves them a large chunk of their parts cost.

And any repair shop could drop a new board in in about 5 minutes for warranty replacement.

Seems like a no-brainer.
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If you were me, would you return it and wait to hear more? I can't imagine the Headrush or Line 6 Powerplus can touch this amp, even with the hiss. Thanks for your time, helping a newbie to this modeler FRFR world.
 
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