Fender FR-12 compared to PXM-12. My experience so far.

DoctorAK said:
So I was considering EV PXM's as my next big purchase, but now this has me questioning. My use cases, currently using 2x Headrush 112's (which are...meh):
-Playing at home I generally go through JBL 306 monitors because I'm up in my office.
-Band practice have been using 1 x Headrush 112 because I don't want to lug two to run stereo
-Smaller gigs (a few a year) have been going straight to FOH and monitoring with everyone else through some monitor on the small stage (with full band mix)
-Larger gigs (also only a few a year) I generally have my own monitor and have been using my HR112

I was considering 2 x EV PXMs for all the above uses (except monitoring in home office), and could use 2 inputs to do my guitar straight from FM9 AND the full band mix in same speaker(s).

The FR-10 or 12 intrigue me because they are just about half the price of the PXM's, but based on use cases above, seems like it would really only be useful for smaller gigs, am I correct? Would be better to get the PXM's so I can run multiple inputs?
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For use with the Fractal stuff I'd suggest the FR's in most circumstances.

However the PXM is excellent as well. I think the FR sounds fuller and more like a real cab, but the PXM sounds great too.

If you want multiple inputs, the PXM is the obvious choice unless you want to add an external mixer or run other stuff through your FM9's unused inputs.

Both have XLR through jacks so you can monitor with them and send another signal to FOH. So either should be good for any size gig.
 
Hey guys, just a few questions about the FR-12
-Is hiss tolerable in a smaller room at quiet volume?
-Turning the cut knob up reduces it quite a bit? How much does turning it up affect the tone? Can it be compensated with the EQ or any settings on the modeler?

@Deadpool_25
 
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wcfieldskx said:
Hey guys, just a few questions about the FR-12
-Is hiss tolerable in a smaller room at quiet volume?
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Honestly there's no way to tell what the answer will be for you. You'll probably hear it, but whether or not it bothers you, you'll only know when you hear it.
wcfieldskx said:
-Turning the cut knob up reduces it quite a bit? How much does turning it up affect the tone? Can it be compensated with the EQ or any settings on the modeler?

@Deadpool_25
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Turning the cut up makes a huge difference and yes you can offset that with EQ in the Fractal.

I'd say it's absolutely worth trying but you really should buy with a solid return policy. I think the typical two reactions are (a) loving it or (b) loving it but not being able to take the hiss. :)
 
Deadpool_25 said:
Honestly there's no way to tell what the answer will be for you. You'll probably hear it, but whether or not it bothers you, you'll only know when you hear it.

Turning the cut up makes a huge difference and yes you can offset that with EQ in the Fractal.

I'd say it's absolutely worth trying but you really should buy with a solid return policy. I think the typical two reactions are (a) loving it or (b) loving it but not being able to take the hiss. :)
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Thanks you. That's a great help

To offset the cut in the FM3 what would I use in the EQ?
 
wcfieldskx said:
Thanks you. That's a great help

To offset the cut in the FM3 what would I use in the EQ?
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I messed with it a little and liked the result. I'd probably want to fine tune if I was going to stick with that as a final solution but this was what I did (pasting from @WKSmith thread).

Deadpool_25 said:
TL;DR: In the interim, to "solve" the hiss issue, crank the cut knob and recover the lost high end with a PEQ block.

While we all wait for the permanent solution, and since the cut knob reduces the hiss more and more as you turn it up, I decided to test an idea I had. Kill the hiss with the cut knob and recover the lost high end content via a PEQ block.

I started the test with just a synth block going through a PEQ block (bypassed) to the output. @WKSmith Identified that the cut starts around 3k. Targeting frequencies above that, I set the synth block to play a sine wave at 4k (the highest it goes; I was too lazy to use pink noise and the RTA app). I used an SPL app to measure the signal with the cut knob all the way down. I then turned the cut knob all the way up which reduced the to hiss to almost nothing but of course that also reduced the high end coming out of the FM9 too much. To regain that high end I engaged the PEQ block, set it to shelving, and boosted about 9db at 3k. That got the SPL app about the same. But that was just a sine wave at 4k. Not really all that valuable.

Next, I deleted the synth block, added an amp and cab, and shifted to playing some chords around the neck. I tweaked the EQ a little and settled on the parametric EQ having frequency 4 set to shelving, +6db @ 3k; frequency 5 set to shelving, +9 db @ 4k.

It was just a super quick proof of concept and I wasn't able to play very loud (about 85-90db) but I think it worked quite well overall. It would probably take some more tuning of the EQ and of course some testing at gig volume but it's looking like a pretty viable solution.
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Is it to late to add my opinion?

Been playing my new FR12 for one day now. So seriously in the honeymoon phase....

But seems it's seldom I buy any new gear, just plug it in and love it without doing any adjustments but this does for me. I'm giggling.

First...the hiss issue. I seriously wonder if the differences in opinion are because most musicians have different levels of hearing damage, or none. I hear ZERO hiss lol, but then I have mild tinnitus and hearing loss. I hear hiss on my tube amps, but not this.

Man this thing is fun to play. I think Fender knocked it out of the park for those of us who love an amp-in-room experience and yet still want the diversity of using IRs. I really enjoy playing through real cabs with IRs disabled but ultimately find that limiting. I find the presets I dialed in on studio monitors, which worked straight across on my CLRs also work here. So close that I can hear a difference when played back to back, but when I just call up a preset on my FM9 it just sounds good. And FEELs amp like. The EQ dials on top are perfect for on the fly adjustment, not so much between presets, but I'm often at very different volume levels and can turn a knob and be fine for that session. I'm guessing Fender was counting on this to make their Tone Master Modeler (which I've never played) sound and feel good to guitar players

I'll leave all the technical comparisons for those who know much more than I do. But If you're a guy who really enjoys an amp in the corner of the room, with all the modern features we love in our Fractal units it , give it a try. I'm glad I did.
 
3 Chord Rock said:
Is it to late to add my opinion?
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Nope!

3 Chord Rock said:
First...the hiss issue. I seriously wonder if the differences in opinion are because most musicians have different levels of hearing damage, or none. I hear ZERO hiss lol, but then I have mild tinnitus and hearing loss. I hear hiss on my tube amps, but not this.
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Of you feel like pulling a few screws and posting a picture of the preamp board, we'd very much appreciate it.

3 Chord Rock said:
Man this thing is fun to play. I think Fender knocked it out of the park for those of us who love an amp-in-room experience and yet still want the diversity of using IRs.
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Exactly. Soooo much this.

3 Chord Rock said:
But If you're a guy who really enjoys an amp in the corner of the room, with all the modern features we love in our Fractal units it , give it a try. I'm glad I did.
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+1
 
3 Chord Rock said:
But If you're a guy who really enjoys an amp in the corner of the room, with all the modern features we love in our Fractal units it , give it a try. I'm glad I did.
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Can I ask what you were using for amplification before this?

The positive reviews I'm seeing have me so curious about this product, which feels absolutely insane since I have a much more expensive pair of Redsound Elis.8 already. I know cost doesn't equal quality, but it is giving me cognitive dissonance...

It would be very interesting to me to see more backstory from these positive reviewers about what was being used previously. Seeing these reviews after using a Headrush would definitely carry a different weight than prior CLR users, as an example.
 
AmbientOwl said:
Can I ask what you were using for amplification before this?

The positive reviews I'm seeing have me so curious about this product, which feels absolutely insane since I have a much more expensive pair of Redsound Elis.8 already. I know cost doesn't equal quality, but it is giving me cognitive dissonance...

It would be very interesting to me to see more backstory from these positive reviewers about what was being used previously. Seeing these reviews after using a Headrush would definitely carry a different weight than prior CLR users, as an example.
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I have a few ways of enjoying my Fractal. For studio monitors a pair of HS8s, which translated nicely to a pair of CLRs.

I have a few different speaker cabs, that I've played with different power amps that sound really good to me, but mind you I'm not trying to match anything here. Not a popular choice, but I've used an EHX .44 magnum and most of the time going through a 2X12 with Greenbacks. I'm certain the EHX colors the sound...but so does the Greenbacks, so I made specific presets for my "Fractal amp in room" and EQ to taste and it's same as an amp to me.

I'd say the CLRs were the holy grail for me in FRFR. Like loud studio monitors and just sound "big". Turn it up loud and it's clear and sounds big, but still a studio sound. They were great until they stopped working (that's an entirely different story lol)

So enter the FR12, which is basically filling the gap my dead CLRs left. It's different. Others can give you specs and measurements, but I'll give you my impression. Imagine you took something like a CLR and put it in a guitar cab, and it took on some of those characteristics, in a good way. My same presets I love on HS8s and CLRs work here as well, but now it sounds closer to amp-in -room (cabinet in room). I suspect those looking for absolute accuracy may not be as happy as I am. But it's an experience I like and really enjoy. For comparison I recently tried a PXM12MP, which was good, but for me I missed my CLRs no matter how much I EQ'd them. The Fender is different than both of those . From my limited experience it's unique in what it offers. If you're interested I'll sell you a pair of CLRs that intermittently work for cheap....because I just lost all desire to pursue that path. :)
 
Deadpool_25 said:
Of you feel like pulling a few screws and posting a picture of the preamp board, we'd very much appreciate it.
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I'll give you a solid maybe :)
Not right away but I'm sure I could get around to it. I haven't kept up with the hissterectomy thread, so I'd have to get caught up to even know what to look for
 
3 Chord Rock said:
I have a few ways of enjoying my Fractal. For studio monitors a pair of HS8s, which translated nicely to a pair of CLRs.

I have a few different speaker cabs, that I've played with different power amps that sound really good to me, but mind you I'm not trying to match anything here. Not a popular choice, but I've used an EHX .44 magnum and most of the time going through a 2X12 with Greenbacks. I'm certain the EHX colors the sound...but so does the Greenbacks, so I made specific presets for my "Fractal amp in room" and EQ to taste and it's same as an amp to me.

I'd say the CLRs were the holy grail for me in FRFR. Like loud studio monitors and just sound "big". Turn it up loud and it's clear and sounds big, but still a studio sound. They were great until they stopped working (that's an entirely different story lol)

So enter the FR12, which is basically filling the gap my dead CLRs left. It's different. Others can give you specs and measurements, but I'll give you my impression. Imagine you took something like a CLR and put it in a guitar cab, and it took on some of those characteristics, in a good way. My same presets I love on HS8s and CLRs work here as well, but now it sounds closer to amp-in -room (cabinet in room). I suspect those looking for absolute accuracy may not be as happy as I am. But it's an experience I like and really enjoy. For comparison I recently tried a PXM12MP, which was good, but for me I missed my CLRs no matter how much I EQ'd them. The Fender is different than both of those . From my limited experience it's unique in what it offers. If you're interested I'll sell you a pair of CLRs that intermittently work for cheap....because I just lost all desire to pursue that path. :)
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I might be interested in one or both of those CLR’s. How cheap you talking?
 
Chewie5150 said:
I sometimes play through my CLR's or the FR12's (mostly) or all at the same time! I do favor my CLR's when it comes to cleans but for the dirt it just sounds so much more satisfying with the FR12's
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Wow......more satisfying than the CLRs........now that's saying something!
 
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