Fender FR-12 compared to PXM-12. My experience so far.

[Chewie5150]

Sounds like an epic setup @Deadpool_25 makes total sense.

 

[Willbnd]

I think at this point I at least owe it to myself to try one . Thanks for the push

Exciting times when we get this level of sound at a price like this

I feel like Fender is going to sell way more FR 10/12 than TMPs because it’s what the market was craving for.

 

[Stonetone]

IMHO its just another FRFR speaker flavor of the Month If we look back there is is always some new Hot FRFR that comes out people gush and rave about it, IE: at some points in time it was the Yamaha DXR, QSC, K.2, LCR, Matrix amp and cab Friedman ASM. etc etc, point is its always something flavor of the month for what are essentially and basically all about the same, now not saying that the Fenders are not good they certainly see to be based on user reviews on various DM forums.
Now lets see what will be the next best and greatest.

Cheers

 

[greiswig]

IMHO its just another FRFR speaker flavor of the Month

is this based on your own experience with the Fender product?

 

[Chewie5150]

IMHO its just another FRFR speaker flavor of the Month If we look back there is is always some new Hot FRFR that comes out people gush and rave about it, IE: at some points in time it was the Yamaha DXR, QSC, K.2, LCR, Matrix amp and cab Friedman ASM. etc etc, point is its always something flavor of the month for what are essentially and basically all about the same, now not saying that the Fenders are not good they certainly see to be based on user reviews on various DM forums.
Now lets see what will be the next best and greatest.

Cheers

possibly just a new flavor. If that's the case i'm lickin this lollipop. In my personal experience, I've been around the forum over 10 yrs now and remember seeing the rotation of favoured FRFR of the day discussed. I've tried a few of them out too and didn't quite get it. This is the first time I"ve tried something other than my CLR's and felt satisfied...at least for my use. I'm not a gigging musician. I haven't tried the PXM's or any Redsound. I'd love to audition those. Only way to know if these Fenders are for you is try them out for a few days if you can. I agree with the statement to wait and see the next best and greatest. This is a good direction for gear

additional thought here is that in my case I don't pit the FR10/12's squarely against DXR, QSC et al as they are more loud speaker/hifi much like the CLR. In that category I felt the CLR's to come out on top. The Fenders are a different design/modality...I think that's why i've glommed on to them. A lot of it of it for me is the 'feel' of that lower resonance /thump. More similar to the Friedman ASM's and offerings of that design. Friedmans are nice but also way more scratch.

 

[REDD]

I wonder if the 10" version is as good or much different than the 12" version? Smaller and less weight is always a plus.

 

[marsonic]

More similar to the Friedman ASM's and offerings of that design. Friedmans are nice but also way more scratch.

I'm probably wrong about this, but I kinda think they might have also gone too far that way - if there's a complaint about them, it's that they're too thump-y/bass-y, which is a problem the Fender FRs don't seem to have.

It seems like each generation of these things gets better by refining the ideas/designs that went into the previous ones. Which....is exactly what should happen. And it's why it seems like everything is a flavor of the month - it kind of is.

For the sounds I like, it seems like amps got "best" some time between the late 50s and mid 60s despite many generations of "improvements" after that. But, that's kind of rare in technological development.

 

[Chewie5150]

- if there's a complaint about them, it's that they're too thump-y/bass-y, which is a problem the Fender FRs don't seem to have.

exactly this. I tried a Friedman but it was very bassy

 

[Stonetone]

is this based on your own experience with the Fender product?

no not at all, just an observation

 

[Deadpool_25]

exactly this. I tried a Friedman but it was very bassy

The Friedmans have a low cut switch but not the same type of onboard EQ the Fenders (or PXMs for that matter) have. The EQ comes in super handy.

Extra special thanks to @WKSmith for the EQ plots. Its very nice to know the appropriate difference from my PXMs frequency graph.

I've heard people say "flat" equipment shouldn't need EQ (about things like the Seymour Duncan Powerstage). That might be true in a vacuum but it certainly isn't true in the real world.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I wonder if the 10" version is as good or much different than the 12" version? Smaller and less weight is always a plus.

A 10” speaker doesn’t have the same lows as an equivalent 12”, has an higher resonance, and, because it’s a little smaller and lighter cone it has a bit more snap or punch to it. For instance, the 1x10 Greenback has a resonance about 95Hz where the 1x12 version is 75Hz, similarly, the Creamback speakers track about the same.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

A 10” speaker doesn’t have the same lows as an equivalent 12”, has an higher resonance, and, because it’s a little smaller and lighter cone it has a bit more snap or punch to it. For instance, the 1x10 Greenback has a resonance about 95Hz where the 1x12 version is 75Hz, similarly, the Creamback speakers track about the same.

Fender-ish 12s and 10s follow a similar pattern as well....

 

[mtb]

Back in stock at GC. FR-12 ordered.

 

[Chewie5150]

Today I turned on my system to play and heard an awful loud hiss coming from the FRs. I thought oh no! is this what some users have been talking about? I then realized i hand't turned on my Apollo X6 which is what my guitar is plugged into > SPDIF to AF3. God what a relief.

 

[Chewie5150]

Another observation after having these FR's for about a week now is I'm hearing certain nuances more. I'm not saying its due to the Fenders in particular but I sense more going through the form of a cab like source that is revealing more low end/resonance. For example, I'm noticing the difference more with Drives. In my one main preset I have the T808 OD that I often favor and started A/B'ing other drives I put in other channels of the block. I threw on a MCMLXXXI and now I can hear that low end response being affected differently. It was always there I'm sure just more pronounced now

 

[Sixstring]

Another observation after having these FR's for about a week now is I'm hearing certain nuances more. I'm not saying its due to the Fenders in particular but I sense more going through the form of a cab like source that is revealing more low end/resonance. For example, I'm noticing the difference more with Drives. In my one main preset I have the T808 OD that I often favor and started A/B'ing other drives I put in other channels of the block. I threw on a MCMLXXXI and now I can hear that low end response being affected differently. It was always there I'm sure just more pronounced now

I'm sure it has a lot to do with the bump in the low end response these things are showing!

 

[Cainer]

I'm sure it has a lot to do with the bump in the low end response these things are showing!

yeah at least a portion of this elusive "amp in the room" phenomenon seems to be low end, likely often from the cab coupling with the stage/room - that heavy thump of having your sternum vibrate/resonate - so I'm wondering if some of the observations of the more 'amp-like' feel with these are due to the low end bump. Not that it's a bad thing - maybe that approximates a similar phenomenon with real amps. I know the most 'amp in the room' my rig has sounded is when there's some bottom end reinforcement happening because of the stage/wall. That sort of low end that you feel but doesn't muddy things up.
A lot of conjecture on my part, so dose it heavily with some salt lol - hoping to find out for myself what these things sound like when I can scrape up the cash and time to try 'em out.

 

[Deadpool_25]

The low end thing is interesting. Although the PXMs can extend down as far (I think) and boosting the PXM's lows a bit does bring them closer in that regard, it's the way the low end feels that's different. Without anything objective to attribute it to, I'm guessing it's just the way the cabinet itself resonates. I'm sure the resonant frequency of the FR cabinet is different from that of the PXM. Maybe it's that.

When I get a chance I want to try the EQ settings @WKSmith posted that should make the frequency response graphs more alike. One of those settings is reducing the bass to 2.5. I'm wondering how they'll compare in terms of low and then.

I suppose I'm mostly curious if it's more of an EQ thing or more of a design thing. My guess is it's the latter.

 

[Sixstring]

yeah at least a portion of this elusive "amp in the room" phenomenon seems to be low end, likely often from the cab coupling with the stage/room - that heavy thump of having your sternum vibrate/resonate - so I'm wondering if some of the observations of the more 'amp-like' feel with these are due to the low end bump. Not that it's a bad thing - maybe that approximates a similar phenomenon with real amps. I know the most 'amp in the room' my rig has sounded is when there's some bottom end reinforcement happening because of the stage/wall. That sort of low end that you feel but doesn't muddy things up.
A lot of conjecture on my part, so dose it heavily with some salt lol - hoping to find out for myself what these things sound like when I can scrape up the cash and time to try 'em out.

I under stand but If that were the case all we would have to do is to replicate that same low end hump and everyone would be that much closer to the real deal, sometimes it sound good sometimes not so much.

From what I have learned, in a nut shell amp in the room (aside from the obvious) has more to do with how the output transformer of a tube amp coupled with the guitar speaker reacts with respect to impedance/frequency. I'm sure there is more to that equation but getting that idea to translate over to FR cab using an IR is a different deal.

 

[marsonic]

The low end thing is interesting. Although the PXMs can extend down as far (I think) and boosting the PXM's lows a bit does bring them closer I that regard, it's the way the low end feels that's different. Without anything objective to attribute it to, I'm guessing it's just the way the cabinet itself resonates. I'm sure the resonant frequency of the FR cabinet is different from that of the PXM. Maybe it's that.

It's not cab resonance. If nothing else, any of the actual resonances in any of those cabs would be a lot higher than that low end bump.

I have no idea what it is, but most of the "normal" explanations don't make any sense to me.