Excellent video about amp in the room sound

I think his test at the end regarding whether or not having an amp near your guitar makes a difference was flawed because sustain is the big thing that is supposed to be affected by proximity to a loud amp.
 
I remember some lively discussion here when I attempted to articulate similar feeling of not getting the whole AITR pantleg flapping / wind in yur hair thing for most of my life as I'd only ever heard guitar sounds on record or at PA'd live shows - when I started to play guitar in my 40s AITR sounded aweful to me and I still sometimes struggle to appreciate it preferring mic'd cab sounds (not for lack of trying given all the unmic'd guitar cabs I have here in my music room).

Though his vids are interesting and informative, I would prefer, as I mentioned on the last ones about tone woods and preamp sounds, that he spend his energy on showcasing / demonstrating where small differences apply and how they apply (ie acoustic reinforcement from volume in this case), as opposed to trying to show that these things don't exist or are meaningless despite evidence that they do meaningfully exist albeit in often small ways relative to the overall. It's a bit of a cop out - like: since it's really tough to summon the precision to demonstrate a subtle nuance that human brains can decern, I'll just demonstrate it as non-existing. He seems smart, meticulous, and determined enough to, if he wanted, showcase / demonstrate such nuances.
 
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sprint said:
I remember some lively discussion here when I attempted to articulate similar feeling of not getting the whole AITR pantleg flapping / wind in yur hair thing for most of my life as I'd only ever heard guitar sounds on record or at PA'd live shows - when I started to play guitar in my 40s AITR sounded aweful to me and I still sometimes struggle to appreciate it preferring mic'd cab sounds (not for lack of trying given all the unmic'd guitar cabs I have here in my music room).

Though his vids are interesting and informative, I would prefer, as I mentioned on the last ones about tone woods and preamp sounds, that he spend his energy on showcasing / demonstrating where small differences apply and how they apply (ie acoustic reinforcement from volume in this case), as opposed to trying to show that these things don't exist or are meaningless despite evidence that they do meaningfully exist albeit in often small ways relative to the overall. It's a bit of a cop out - like: since it's really tough to summon the precision to demonstrate a subtle nuance that human brains can decern, I'll just demonstrate it as non-existing. He seems smart, meticulous, and determined enough to, if he wanted, showcase / demonstrate such nuances.
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It's because he's in it for the ultimate result. The small differences don't matter to what he's trying to accomplish.

Here's another example - switching out the entire guitar sound doesn't really change the song. (Press play, should start at 5:05)



Does it matter to the player? It absolutely can. If something inspires you, use it. If you're not being inspired, you probably need to change something. But, it's rarely an objectively better/worse kind of thing, at least IME. And the big take-away is that you don't need to chase unobtanium gear to reach sonic nirvana. If you're not happy with your playing, a '59 Les Paul and Dumble #1 isn't going to get you there.

Also, I'm kinda with you...except for one thing. I finally realized, like a week or two ago, that when I listen to an amplifier, I'm always sitting really far off-axis. Otherwise, I hate it. No matter what it is. Apparently, I never want to hear the beam from a guitar cab. But, it kinda needs to be there going into the PA or the recorder. So...I low-passed my IEM feed. It's much, much better. It also makes it harder for my own sound to cut through a mix in my IEMs...which changes how I set the guitar controls and a bit how I play. And, so far, it seems like it's an improvement.

That demonstration seems like it really should have presented more of a difference than it did with the amp on/off. But...I also don't care. The Gain Enhancer does something that I like, so I use it.
 
dpeterson said:
I love the argument, "youtube mangles the audio". VH1 still sounds great on there, hell all the VH albums. Boom, myth busted.
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Depending on the song, I can hear lossy data compression. But, it doesn't generally bother me on YT.

Oh yeah....as for Jim's test in this one....I think the difference was there but tiny. The low-mids change minutely, but that could be from the playing. He didn't let the sustain ring out or listen to how the speaker being on/off affected how the volume control on the guitar worked.

Based on Cliff's explanation of exactly what happens when a guitar "hears" an amp...he essentially didn't test it.

And he did say that it was easy to show that obvious feedback depends on amp volume.

And, I'm pretty sure that the results of his previous tests would imply he's using potted, non-microphonic pickups, which would reduce the effect for obvious reasons.

Still....I expected a more obvious effect. And it's nice to have some evidence that I'm not losing something magical/huge by playing in my IEMs in a silent room. Which matches what I hear. If anything, it sounds like I'm getting more distortion/gain through my IEMs than when I listen to the same thing through speakers....which is probably down to the fact that my IEMs are more detailed than the speakers I use for my FM3.
 
OrganicZed said:
I think his test at the end regarding whether or not having an amp near your guitar makes a difference was flawed because sustain is the big thing that is supposed to be affected by proximity to a loud amp.
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Not to mention the fact when he was right on top of the cab at full volume I didn't hear a hit of feedback. I have never been able to pull that off.
 
This is a video of me playing through my Studio monitors, recorded with I Phone I would say at least 6 ft away on a closet.
It’s not that loud, my daughter sleeps in a room nearby, you can hear when I hit the strings.
But these monitors can get very loud and it’s an awesome Amp in the room sound in my opinion.
Excuse the sloppy playing, twelve hours at work…
My preset is very EVH inspired, I love pitch, reverb and delay.
Guitar is a Music Man LIII with Music man Pickups.
 
Got to admit I was totally FRFR but now days I actually enjoy the sound coming out of a guitar speaker cabinet, strictly for my own playing enjoyment. I know it doesn’t translate or record the same, and FRFR is more practical etc, but I enjoy the sound of an open back 1x12 more than my nearfields, my CLR, my headrush etc based on how it sounds in the room.

It is different and I do like it better
 
FractalAudio said:
Horribly flawed methodology.

The wood matters when you are playing at volume. Everyone misses this very important point. The guitar and amp and speakers form a feedback loop. Different types of wood resonate differently. Those resonances reinforce certain parts of the spectrum.

I did a test where I measured the spectrum of the guitar alone and then when playing at volume. The difference was quite pronounced.

If you measure the spectrum of a guitar without any acoustic feedback then the type of wood makes little difference. The pickups are the dominant tone shaping. Once you get some acoustic feedback going then the wood becomes a factor.
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Weird, this video is getting pretty much no love on another board (ss/tube/digital are all popular there).

I dont care about AITR and apparently it's a bullet dodged.
 
Budda said:
Weird, this video is getting pretty much no love on another board (ss/tube/digital are all popular there).

I dont care about AITR and apparently it's a bullet dodged.
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A lot of people write him off because his findings contradict a lot of conventional wisdom. I find a lot of it at least interesting, even though pretty much everything has at least some flaws.

I can't figure out some of the results of this one....there is an audible difference in the big test, but not as much as I think there should have been.

That being said....Cliff's math suggested that the in-room volume was the single largest determinant of gain enhancement and feedback. And he did the test outside...which will reduce the apparent volume of the cab. That alone actually might be enough. Playing outside probably does more than turning the speaker down by half. Add in modern potted pickups....and I'm not at all surprised he got no significant result, even though you can hear a small difference in the midrange of the guitar with the cab on/off...just not which direction it goes....which also makes sense since what the feedback does changes when the relative position of the guitar and cab change.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-modelers-dont-clean-up-with-the-volume-knob-myth.154557/
 
re: youtube, this is an interesting video that tries to test what Youtube 'does to audio' with null tests on whole tracks, bass and high frequencies - be warned about halfway through there are some resonant filter sweeps that may be unpleasant in headphones or loud.

 
YT does lossy data compression and average level normalization...you can see the details for both in "stats for nerds".

It does damage the sound...but it's not substantially different from any other streaming platform or lossy files, and while the difference can be audible...it's not huge.

I am absolutely convinced that lossy data compression is more fatiguing...but that's not really an "in the moment" thing.
 
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