Euro2 Air Test

[mitch]

Nice track, the difference is clearly audible. It is the same kind of coloration difference that changing mic position and/or EQ can generate, however. IMO both sounds work well in the context of the track. Were I looking for the second sound, I'd bet I could just apply some EQ to the non-"Air" preset and get there.

Jay, thanks. That's exactly what I've been pondering, but I wonder if an EQ would provide exactly the same effect though. A cab is a very complex eq curve with many notched out missing frequencies as well, right? I'm thinking that the air is filling those notches a bit in addition to a bump around the cutoff frequency....does that sound right in layman's terms? If that's the case, could you really get there with EQ alone? This is largely just a theoretical question, as I'm pretty sure you could get imperceptibly close.

 

[R.D.]

btw....I think my hearing is already a bit gone in the critical "wife frequencies." ;-)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's awesome!!!

Mine where gone almost instantly the moment I said, "I do"...

Or was it the moment that she said ..., she wouldn't :?:

 

[mitch]

Hey Mitch, I forgot to mention that I really love the "grit" that this track has... really great stuff!

Thanks a lot!

btw....I think my hearing is already a bit gone in the critical "wife frequencies." ;-)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's awesome!!!

Mine where gone almost instantly the moment I said, "I do"...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[mortega76]

btw....I think my hearing is already a bit gone in the critical "wife frequencies." ;-)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's awesome!!!

Mine where gone almost instantly the moment I said, "I do"...

Or was it the moment that she said ..., she wouldn't :?:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Exactly!!!!

 

[Scott Peterson]

Well done and easy to hear.

I've found that I like similar settings, but I have the AIR 'mix' up at 75%.

Fun!

Yeah....it's easy to crank up the AIR mix because it just sounds so good (with a reasonable frequency setting). I was intentionally trying to keep it a bit less obvious on this clip.

Scott, since you seem to really have a good handle on the whole EQ game, I'd be interested to hear your philosophy on using AIR relative to the multitude of other frequency related controls at our disposal. There are now so many ways to skin the cat, that it can lead to tweaker's analysis paralysis! Are you using the cab drive much lately? I'm starting to like cranking the cab drive up around the point where it really starts messing with the signal and then backing off a tad.

I'm also kind of wondering now how steep the low-pass filter is, and how much of a bump it's creating at the cutoff. Other than simply mixing in direct signal, it would seem to also give us a way to effectively emphasize frequencies around the cutoff point. I guess a parallel chain with a parametric eq would provide more flexibility in this regard, but the air controls provide a good quick way to get the job done without more complex routing and additional blocks.

I stopped using a PEQ after the cab, just bypassed it. I ramped up AIR to about 3.6kHa at 75%; Amp advanced tab, "Pres/Depth Type" = Passive, dropped "Dampening" to about straight up noon and on cleaner tones used lower Depth (around 1.00) and for heavier tones, up to 2.99. Sounded right to me.

Done a lot of recording Friday and Monday and right now at home today. Sounds FANTASTIC and much less 'sharp' than my prior patch settings with any pre-7.18 firmware. Yet has the musical traction sizzle without any fizz; I hear it as clarity and depth. LOVE the new depth, dialed in right, it's just a 'more' control for the bottom without any seeming negatives if you don't get carried away with the levels.

Overall, 7.18 was a major firmware jump. I simplified my patches (bypassing PEQ after the cab) and it sounds & feels more 3-D. That's a win/win/win proposition in my book.

 

[mortega76]

...That's a win/win/win proposition in my book.

Dumb question... I understand "Win/Win", but what is "Win/Win/Win"?

 

[mitch]

[quote="Scott Peterson":2vtrzd3g]Well done and easy to hear.

I've found that I like similar settings, but I have the AIR 'mix' up at 75%.

Fun!

Yeah....it's easy to crank up the AIR mix because it just sounds so good (with a reasonable frequency setting). I was intentionally trying to keep it a bit less obvious on this clip.

Scott, since you seem to really have a good handle on the whole EQ game, I'd be interested to hear your philosophy on using AIR relative to the multitude of other frequency related controls at our disposal. There are now so many ways to skin the cat, that it can lead to tweaker's analysis paralysis! Are you using the cab drive much lately? I'm starting to like cranking the cab drive up around the point where it really starts messing with the signal and then backing off a tad.

I'm also kind of wondering now how steep the low-pass filter is, and how much of a bump it's creating at the cutoff. Other than simply mixing in direct signal, it would seem to also give us a way to effectively emphasize frequencies around the cutoff point. I guess a parallel chain with a parametric eq would provide more flexibility in this regard, but the air controls provide a good quick way to get the job done without more complex routing and additional blocks.

I stopped using a PEQ after the cab, just bypassed it. I ramped up AIR to about 3.6kHa at 75%; Amp advanced tab, "Pres/Depth Type" = Passive, dropped "Dampening" to about straight up noon and on cleaner tones used lower Depth (around 1.00) and for heavier tones, up to 2.99. Sounded right to me.

Done a lot of recording Friday and Monday and right now at home today. Sounds FANTASTIC and much less 'sharp' than my prior patch settings with any pre-7.18 firmware. Yet has the musical traction sizzle without any fizz; I hear it as clarity and depth. LOVE the new depth, dialed in right, it's just a 'more' control for the bottom without any seeming negatives if you don't get carried away with the levels.

Overall, 7.18 was a major firmware jump. I simplified my patches (bypassing PEQ after the cab) and it sounds & feels more 3-D. That's a win/win/win proposition in my book.[/quote:2vtrzd3g]
Excellent info....thanks a lot. Yes, 7.18 is definitely a huge change. I think I had been abusing the depth previously, so I really need to step back and redo some things....it's VERY easy to overdo it now. Interesting that you're maxing out around 2.99 for depth on heavy tones. I was playing with the Uberschall yesterday and found it to be absurdly bassy. I know it has a lot of low end, but I'm really wondering if some of the amp defaults need to be changed post-7.18. I believe the default depth on the Uber is up at 5. With any significant gain, that model seems to become a boomy mess now unless you cut the depth and/or bass a lot. I know I can also increase the low-cut frequency to tighten it, but it seems impossible that the real amp would sound like that. Never played one, so I could be wrong here. This probably should be a separate thread, so I'll start one if needed.

 

[GuitarDojo]

I couldn't tell that much of a difference (if any at all)... damn... I may need some new ears!

Really no offense intended, but I think you might. :lol: On my studio monitors, the difference is staggering and very impressive.

The difference is definitely there when you play the track "as-is" but when I manually raised the volume during the first part, then lowered the volume on the second part (manually)... they sounded very similar.

Either way, I still need new ears!

When properly listened to you can hear the difference.

With headphones on the second part with "AIR" seemed to wrap around my head!! :shock:

 

[Scott Peterson]

...That's a win/win/win proposition in my book.

Dumb question... I understand "Win/Win", but what is "Win/Win/Win"?

More 'win' for everyone. :shock:

 

[mortega76]

[quote="Scott Peterson":3n9rafz5]...That's a win/win/win proposition in my book.

Dumb question... I understand "Win/Win", but what is "Win/Win/Win"?

More 'win' for everyone. :shock: [/quote:3n9rafz5]
Aaaaaahhhhh ok...

Kind of like this?

 

[VegaBaby]

I just tried that. Even lowered the volume of the second half well below the first. Regardless of volume, the second patch has a much crisper, more present high end.

+1

Tried the same thing like you and it's still very audible more 'open', even on my tiny laptop speakers.

 

[VegaBaby]

I believe the default depth on the Uber is up at 5. With any significant gain, that model seems to become a boomy mess now unless you cut the depth and/or bass a lot. I know I can also increase the low-cut frequency to tighten it, but it seems impossible that the real amp would sound like that. Never played one, so I could be wrong here. This probably should be a separate thread, so I'll start one if needed.

I'm only in front of the editor right now and depth defaults to 5.87. I'm sure this value is for depth set to active. Did you try the default and just switch it to active to see if it 'sounds right' ?

 

[mitch]

I believe the default depth on the Uber is up at 5. With any significant gain, that model seems to become a boomy mess now unless you cut the depth and/or bass a lot. I know I can also increase the low-cut frequency to tighten it, but it seems impossible that the real amp would sound like that. Never played one, so I could be wrong here. This probably should be a separate thread, so I'll start one if needed.

I'm only in front of the editor right now and depth defaults to 5.87. I'm sure this value is for depth set to active. Did you try the default and just switch it to active to see if it 'sounds right' ?

Thanks for the idea. I just checked on my Ultra....the Uber defaults to depth of 5. When I switch to active it does indeed sound better, so it seems that the default depth is too much when using passive mode. Maybe this should be changed, since the amps default to passive now. As a result, new users are especially going to be confused as to why the amp sounds excessively boomy. Thoughts?

 

[mojave]

Mitch in 3D

 

[mitch]

Mitch in 3D

Just wait till Cliff updates the firmware to allow us access to the 4th dimension! :lol:

 

[VegaBaby]

I'm only in front of the editor right now and depth defaults to 5.87. I'm sure this value is for depth set to active. Did you try the default and just switch it to active to see if it 'sounds right' ?

Thanks for the idea. I just checked on my Ultra....the Uber defaults to depth of 5. When I switch to active it does indeed sound better, so it seems that the default depth is too much when using passive mode. Maybe this should be changed, since the amps default to passive now. As a result, new users are especially going to be confused as to why the amp sounds excessively boomy. Thoughts?

Ahh yeah...that's what I thought. Maybe the editor hasn't got the new value of 5 yet since it doesn't hace the new parameters of 7.18 (or maybe the editors default values are incorrect which should be corrected as well). Maybe Cliff dialed it down a bit already, but you're right, the defaults should be adjusted to fit the new parameters. A lot of people mentioned 'boominess' and that's probably the reason...

 

[fremen]

"boominess" is also dependent on the IR used...

 

[Chad]

"boominess" is also dependent on the IR used...

Very true, but didn't matter a whole lot when using the default settings of the Uber sim with passive pres/depth. In that situation, going through all or the IRs varies between "excessive boominess" and "not quite as excessive boominess".

 

[mitch]

"boominess" is also dependent on the IR used...

Very true, but didn't matter a whole lot when using the default settings of the Uber sim with passive pres/depth. In that situation, going through all or the IRs varies between "excessive boominess" and "not quite as excessive boominess".

That's been my experience as well.

 

[decipher]

With all of the talk about the new "Air" feature, I figured I'd play around with it for a bit to get used to the effect and figure out how I might incorporate it. I'm starting to really like it on high gain stuff. It seems to be the cure for any "blanket over the speaker" perceptions (though I never really had any issues like that).

Anyway, here's a quick test track I recorded. It's a basic Euro2 patch (drive->amp->cab) that I double-tracked. The first section is without the Air effect and the second part is with the Air at 36.2% and a frequency of 3162Hz. There's some moderate multiband compression on the mix as a bandaid to tame some out of control low-end, but it doesn't affect the sound of the Air.

The track:
http://www.mitchbrody.com/axefx/Euro2_AirTest.mp3

The patch:
http://www.mitchbrody.com/axefx/Euro2_AirTest.syx
(FYI...this patch has a bunch of other bypassed junk in it that wasn't used.)

One area that I'm playing with now is to offset some of the harshness of the Air by turning up the cab drive a bit. Seems like there's some fun to be had there.

Enjoy and by all means crank it up!

Do you have this an updated patch of this on the 10.01 Firmware... really like this tone!