EQing for Rooms

M

Musachi

Member
Hi!

Have some great sounds at home that I've found are too bright when at my new band's rehearsal space. Rolling off the tone knobs/etc can sort of get me there, but I'm sitting at like 2-3 vs. 6-8 at home, and it's still a little sharp. Some context:
  • Near as I can tell, no EQ is being applied by the the PA systems in question.
  • I'm running at +4 DB - near as I can tell, this should be the appropriate setting for pro audio.
  • All presets are affected.
Should I be applying global EQ here? Is there maybe a setting I'm missing? How do you folks adjust your rigs to new rooms to keep the same tones? And how often do you find you have to make adjustments for a new space?

M
 
Different speakers - I'm plugging into PAs at the studios. At home, I'm into an Apollo x8 -> Focal Trio BEs. At the studio, it's a variety of big PA speakers via the board. Shocked at how strident it sounds.
 
Different rooms can have different nodes but beyond that are you at the same volume? If not then Fletcher Munson may be the culprit.
 
Yeah, this phenomenon is called the Fletcher Munson curve - human ears perceive frequencies differently at different volumes, so your at-home tones will be way too bright when turned up to gigging levels. Best remedy to this I've found is to used plenty of High Cut (I use the one in the cab block). I usually go to around 6-7k.
 
When I switch between my MF10's and CLR's I'll set Global EQ differently, it's often the quickest and easiest way to tune your rig to the room - Though with the Fractal's there usually any number of ways of achieving that
 
Global EQ's are your friend here. In fact, you can EQ for one space with the graphic and another with the parametric, and those settings will be recalled when you switch between them.

Side note: while I personally would like to push the strongest signal from my rig, I often set outputs to -10 so as to not confuse or anger soundmen. I haven't found a functional reason for sending a lower level signal, other than some soundmen automatically assume you are feeding some low level or mic level signal.
 
The main problem with sound is that every PA system should have a graphic EQ on mains and monitors and those should be tuned for the room when it’s installed. Then when anyone sets up, it should sound pretty good without any major EQ adjustments. Sure a bit of channel EQ, but that’s how it should be done.

Of course that’s not how it is. Most mixers don’t have any graphic on it and we all try to EQ for the room with 3 little channel knobs, which isn’t what their purpose is.

As Matt says, fortunately our axe gear has a Global graphic (or parametric) and we can EQ there.

If your gear sounds good on one set of speakers in a certain room, it can sound pretty close to that in another room with different speakers using EQ. Then you don’t have to change your presets at all. (Of course there are exceptions and really bad rooms.)

When big touring bands go out, most of the time they don’t adjust any channel EQ, but instead FOH and Monitor guys spend their time mainly on the Graphic EQs. Then it’s pretty much set and ready to go. Of course they run pink noise, use RTAs and SMAART etc, but that’s not possible at venues where the audience is already there while we setup.

I had a regular gig at some bar/restaurant for years and early on, I noticed the sound system was really bad in a certain frequency range. I asked management if I could come early before anyone was there and I bought a 31 band and tuned the system a bit. It sounded much better after (I’m not THAT good but it helped). All the bands sounded better, and I scooped out a bit of the 1k area in the mains so people could still talk and hear themselves at the table even though the band was pretty present/loud. They were super happy and reimbursed and paid me a bit for it haha.

Master EQ is the secret and standard really, but most setups just don’t have it, and we don’t usually have the time to do it properly.

These days, digital mixers are relatively affordable, and I always take my Touchmix16 with me even if they have a PA setup. It allows me to save multiple EQs and at different venues, I just pull up the right one. First gig, if it’s duo or more, I have my band play the first few (sometimes more!) songs without me, and I go out with my iPad and EQ the system as quick as I can. It’s a pretty rough job, but usually sounds better. Then I join the band and play. Next time, it’s ready to go. I’ll adjust here and there over time, but when you have a honking 400hz or sharp 2k or something ruining everything, it’s just impossible to play. For solos, if they let me play recorded music, I’ll play something I’m familiar with, EQ real fast, then play the gig.

(I cheat a bit and use a parametric though, slightly boosting some bands, sweeping it till it sounds thr worst in a certain range, then cutting it till it sounds better. Very thin, small reductions, don’t want to cut too much. Usually works out and is pretty fast.)

Maybe it’s a bit extreme, but if the pros do that, I can try to do it too.

Again, the axe gear Global Graphic can help with this. Just gotta get used to doing it and learning what the different frequency bands sound like.
 
It likely is Fletcher Munson but one other thing I have run into with monitoring the axe with house sound is the floor monitor setting on commonly used cabs (I'm looking at you QSC) sounds awful for guitar as it's really designed to help vocals cut and remove low end from the speakers having so much surface coupling with the stage. I personally never EQ to the room but let the sound man do that if needed. FWIW
 
Dave Moore said:
It likely is Fletcher Munson but one other thing I have run into with monitoring the axe with house sound is the floor monitor setting on commonly used cabs (I'm looking at you QSC) sounds awful for guitar as it's really designed to help vocals cut and remove low end from the speakers having so much surface coupling with the stage. I personally never EQ to the room but let the sound man do that if needed. FWIW
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Definitely. The wedges at the front of the stage for loud bands are usually tuned for vocals and gain before feedback, and instruments typically don’t sound good through them. It’s why for big acts you see 4 or more monitors around the lead singers, maybe others. 2 are tuned for vocals, 2 are for the instruments only with full range sound.

Your own speaker for your instrument in these situations is extremely helpful, volume set to not interfere with the FOH mix.
 
This is all super helpful. Thank you! The part about monitors set for vocals really resonates. Can you EQ your way out of this? Or is it really about bringing your own speaker?
 
If you eq to that speaker your FOH sound will be off, better to bring a speaker or change the monitor eq to flat or go iem
 
Musachi said:
This is all super helpful. Thank you! The part about monitors set for vocals really resonates. Can you EQ your way out of this? Or is it really about bringing your own speaker?
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If they cut, say, everything below 500hz (extreme example) in the monitors, you can’t really put it back in with your gear that’s before that cut. It needs to be a separate speaker or bus.
 
The vocal monitor eq issue is very real, as described by several others here! I've found it's all but impossible to enjoy the sound of a guitar (electric or acoustic) coming through a monitor that's been heavily eq'd to reduce vocal mic feedback.

I'd suggest either bringing your own small full-range speaker, or use ear monitors. Otherwise, even if it sounds good out in the house, you're not going to be happy on stage.
 
And I've found this is a factor with traditional guitar amps as well: it seems like a good idea to put some of your mic'd amp in the stage wedges, to spread the sound around, but often the wedges are eq'd to be so harsh and thin, you ask for it, then ask them to take it back out once you hear how bad it sounds :)
 
I start the low cut at 100hz and high cut at 11khz for guitar/samples output 1's globlal EQ. Makes the guitar sit in the mix in either FOH or FRFR situations. Pretty sure the sound guy (girl) isn't doing much with EQ, but people always say our sound is amazing. Fletcher-Munson is very real.
 
James Nash said:
The vocal monitor eq issue is very real, as described by several others here! I've found it's all but impossible to enjoy the sound of a guitar (electric or acoustic) coming through a monitor that's been heavily eq'd to reduce vocal mic feedback.

I'd suggest either bringing your own small full-range speaker, or use ear monitors. Otherwise, even if it sounds good out in the house, you're not going to be happy on stage.
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This is such a deep thing, and I'm pretty such it's what's happening. I'mma go check out the settings on the monitors at the space, but I guess it makes sense to bring my own. A bit of a pain in the ass, but whatever. I'll figure it out.
 
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