Dyna cabs Packs

[guitarcal]

If new dyna-cab’s don’t have their corresponding speaker impedance curve then it’d be a turn off from me from buying.

Just curious, is this the same mindset you have with IRs? If there is an IR available, but the corresponding impedance curve isn’t available, then you won’t use it?

I see nothing wrong with this mindset if you are going for accuracy.

 

[ApocalypticKatana]

Just curious, is this the same mindset you have with IRs? If there is an IR available, but the corresponding impedance curve isn’t available, then you won’t use it?

I see nothing wrong with this mindset if you are going for accuracy.

Yeah I’m aware of how limiting that is , but sometimes I’ll experiment.

With the infinite amount of possible combinations you can do it can be overwhelming (if you choose it to overwhelm you that is) so putting a pseudo-rule on my self to use what’s “realistic” and sticking to basic options limits my option and not fall into endless tinkering territory and not play and practice the guitar.

Not that there’s anything wrong with tinkering , there’s joy to be had there but I’ve done my share of that already and found a happy medium.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I’d really like to see releases like two notes does. Artist cabs and rare stuff.

That would be cool.

 

[trancegodz]

Currently, from what I’ve read, the motion of the robot used to move the microphones only allows from the center of the cone to the edge, and from the grill cloth to whatever the maximum distance is. (I’m away from my gear so I can’t check.)

Do you think will we still have all the same choices as far as microphone placement goes with third party Dyna-cab packs?

If new Dyna-cab packs do come out they will have to offer something we don't already have for me to be interested at all. Like more microphone choices, or different microphone choices. Cabs or speakers choices that we don't already have. Maybe a different preamp, etc.

It's going to take me a while to really check out the possibilities with the Dyna-cabs we have now. I'm not sure I will need anything else. Time will tell. I am enjoying all the possibilities we have already.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Do you think will we still have all the same choices as far as microphone placement goes with third party Dyna-cab packs?

If new Dyna-cab packs do come out they will have to offer something we don't already have for me to be interested at all. Like more microphone choices, or different microphone choices. Cabs or speakers choices that we don't already have. Maybe a different preamp, etc.

I’ve tried to answer this several times and restarted because it’s really a guess at this point, at least as far as I know, and I don’t want to speculate about it. We know that they have the opportunity to make packs, but what flexibility is available to them is unknown.

It's going to take me a while to really check out the possibilities with the Dyna-cabs we have now. I'm not sure I will need anything else. Time will tell. I am enjoying all the possibilities we have already.

Definitely. I really like what I have seen and tried.

Could it be improved? Probably, but by how much? It’s such a new idea that I think we need to digest the whole thing and figure out what we can do with it and how to work around any issues we run into.

 

[dr bonkers]

I think @dr bonkers is in line to create Dyna Cab packs too.

Yes, just trying to work out some details and finish the dependant construction.

 

[AmbientOwl]

I'm curious how much value the third party offerings would bring anymore.

My understanding of getting their IRs is that there was a lot of "art" to it. How you placed mics, which mics you used, etc.

However, unless I'm misremembering, the Dynacab is captured using a robot and the idea was that robot would have to be loaned out. Wouldn't that make everything pretty mechanical and leave less inter-user variability?

Also, seems like mic choices are limited by Axe-Edit options (though I suppose the fact they called it vague categories rather than specific mics leaves wiggle room).

I guess I'm just wondering if all third party packs will bring now is different cabs and different mics? With the robot, will there REALLY be any difference between different vendor offerings?

I don't really know anything about anything so would love to hear from people smarter than me. I've just been kind of thinking about this ever since Dynacab was first released.

Edit: Stopped reading replies about two too early... I think @Greg Ferguson kind of addressed this above. Mostly speculation at this point what variety could be brought.

 

[State of Epicicity]

I'm curious how much value the third party offerings would bring anymore.

My understanding of getting their IRs is that there was a lot of "art" to it. How you placed mics, which mics you used, etc.

However, unless I'm misremembering, the Dynacab is captured using a robot and the idea was that robot would have to be loaned out. Wouldn't that make everything pretty mechanical and leave less inter-user variability?

Also, seems like mic choices are limited by Axe-Edit options (though I suppose the fact they called it vague categories rather than specific mics leaves wiggle room).

I guess I'm just wondering if all third party packs will bring now is different cabs and different mics? With the robot, will there REALLY be any difference between different vendor offerings?

I don't really know anything about anything so would love to hear from people smarter than me. I've just been kind of thinking about this ever since Dynacab was first released.

I think there's still a lot of important art and experience that goes into this. First, the room the IR creator uses, the cab's placement in the room. Is it treated at all? Are reflections mitigated in any way? Next, which speaker does the creator choose to capture? The mic, how does this particular one sound? Not all mics of the same model sound the same. Engineers might have several of the same mic but choose one for a session because it compliments the source best. What kind of preamp did the mic go into? Cliff wrote that he preferred the sound of his Neve, and every engineer will have their preference. Will there be a slight difference in axis for where the creator programs the robot to focus? Every millimeter will create a different sound. How's the humidity that day, in what part of what country? Sounds travels differently depending on the climate and weather. The cab, is it constructed unusually? How about the specific panels of wood that ended up in that particular cab? Every piece of wood has its own sonic character. The speakers, are they old and worn out in a good way? Are they fresh and not yet broken in? Are they old and worn out in a bad way? What gauge wire was used to wire the cab? Does it have a slightly stronger signal, simulating the speakers differently because lower gauge wire was used? What's the power like where the capture takes place? Does the power impact the amps used to drive the cabs?

I'm sure there are other factors too. I think there's still a lot of artistic choice that goes into setting up a movable mic simulation.

 

[unix-guy]

If nothing else, different cab and speaker combos will be made available that aren't in the factory cabs.

 

[toneseeker911]

I think there's still a lot of important art and experience that goes into this. First, the room the IR creator uses, the cab's placement in the room. Is it treated at all? Are reflections mitigated in any way? Next, which speaker does the creator choose to capture? The mic, how does this particular one sound? Not all mics of the same model sound the same. Engineers might have several of the same mic but choose one for a session because it compliments the source best. What kind of preamp did the mic go into? Cliff wrote that he preferred the sound of his Neve, and every engineer will have their preference. Will there be a slight difference in axis for where the creator programs the robot to focus? Every millimeter will create a different sound. How's the humidity that day, in what part of what country? Sounds travels differently depending on the climate and weather. The cab, is it constructed unusually? How about the specific panels of wood that ended up in that particular cab? Every piece of wood has its own sonic character. The speakers, are they old and worn out in a good way? Are they fresh and not yet broken in? Are they old and worn out in a bad way? What gauge wire was used to wire the cab? Does it have a slightly stronger signal, simulating the speakers differently because lower gauge wire was used? What's the power like where the capture takes place? Does the power impact the amps used to drive the cabs?

I'm sure there are other factors too. I think there's still a lot of artistic choice that goes into setting up a movable mic simulation.

None of this sounds like an IR makers skill, unlike what we have now with “producer mixes”.
I think it just comes down to a unique mic, cab/speaker or preamp that they may have access to.

 

[Sashman]

I'm curious how much value the third party offerings would bring anymore.

My understanding of getting their IRs is that there was a lot of "art" to it. How you placed mics, which mics you used, etc.

However, unless I'm misremembering, the Dynacab is captured using a robot and the idea was that robot would have to be loaned out. Wouldn't that make everything pretty mechanical and leave less inter-user variability?

Also, seems like mic choices are limited by Axe-Edit options (though I suppose the fact they called it vague categories rather than specific mics leaves wiggle room).

I guess I'm just wondering if all third party packs will bring now is different cabs and different mics? With the robot, will there REALLY be any difference between different vendor offerings?

I don't really know anything about anything so would love to hear from people smarter than me. I've just been kind of thinking about this ever since Dynacab was first released.

Edit: Stopped reading replies about two too early... I think @Greg Ferguson kind of addressed this above. Mostly speculation at this point what variety could be brought.

I could only guess but I think that it will come down to unique cab and speaker combinations and not with different mic positions etc.

 

[State of Epicicity]

None of this sounds like an IR makers skill, unlike what we have now with “producer mixes”.
I think it just comes down to a unique mic, cab/speaker or preamp that they may have access to.

I disagree. The ability to know the difference between a good specimen and a bad one is a skill itself. Having the ears to know a good cab, mic, preamp, room all matter.

 

[laxu]

I'm curious how much value the third party offerings would bring anymore.

My understanding of getting their IRs is that there was a lot of "art" to it. How you placed mics, which mics you used, etc.

However, unless I'm misremembering, the Dynacab is captured using a robot and the idea was that robot would have to be loaned out. Wouldn't that make everything pretty mechanical and leave less inter-user variability?

Also, seems like mic choices are limited by Axe-Edit options (though I suppose the fact they called it vague categories rather than specific mics leaves wiggle room).

I guess I'm just wondering if all third party packs will bring now is different cabs and different mics? With the robot, will there REALLY be any difference between different vendor offerings?

I don't really know anything about anything so would love to hear from people smarter than me. I've just been kind of thinking about this ever since Dynacab was first released.

Edit: Stopped reading replies about two too early... I think @Greg Ferguson kind of addressed this above. Mostly speculation at this point what variety could be brought.

I can't be sure but I would assume that most IR vendors have already used Dynamount mic moving robots to make capturing IRs consistent. I don't know if Fractal adds some custom hardware or just additional software to this setup.

The "art" part of it is all in how multiple mics are mixed together. People love e.g the York Audio mix files for how they sound. They're my favorites too.

Dyna-Cab versions would put part of that "art" part on the end user but at the same time it means there is more flexibility to make it darker/brighter etc as you please rather than relying on York's idea.

I use ML Sound Lab MIKKO which contains basically both ML Sound Lab's preset mixes and you can make your own and export them to IRs. Sometimes I like the preset mixes, sometimes I want to make my own. Having option for both is pretty great. It's also the tool I would recommend if you want to mess with angled mics.

IMO Fractal's current, simplified setup where you have no ability to angle the mic or put it all around the cone is totally fine. Maybe for next gen Axe-Fx they can add that kind of stuff but it's definitely not necessary as you can do a whole lot with just horizontal position + distance.

 

[toneseeker911]

The "art" part of it is all in how multiple mics are mixed together. People love e.g the York Audio mix files for how they sound. They're my favorites too.

Maybe the IR maker could provide some of their favorite mic mix combinations in a pdf along with X/Y distance, alignment etc. That’d be a good starting point to tweak further.

 

[AmbientOwl]

Too many good replies to my inquiry to cite them all. Appreciate everyone's input. Glad to see that there should still be some room for these creators to add to our already wonderful selection.

Personally lived off of York IRs before, so will welcome anything they have to contribute!

 

[axes]

I'm just wondering how 3rd party Dyna-Cabs will be implemented.
I'm only speculating, but to me it seems that the current firmware only supports one Dyna-Cab file to be loaded and it doesn't work additively, hence why every new beta version the entire Dyna-Cab file had to be reloaded for the addition of a few new cabs. The Axe Edit interface for Dyna-Cabs is in general feels way less advanced and developed for managing cabs compared to the IR possibilities currently. Is this (and the entire 3rd party Dyna-Cab expandability) something that Cliff and the team are still working on or is it already figured out?

 

[unix-guy]

I'm just wondering how 3rd party Dyna-Cabs will be implemented.
I'm only speculating, but to me it seems that the current firmware only supports one Dyna-Cab file to be loaded and it doesn't work additively, hence why every new beta version the entire Dyna-Cab file had to be reloaded for the addition of a few new cabs. The Axe Edit interface for Dyna-Cabs is in general feels way less advanced and developed for managing cabs compared to the IR possibilities currently. Is this (and the entire 3rd party Dyna-Cab expandability) something that Cliff and the team are still working on or is it already figured out?

There's also a set legacy IRs (which we don't have direct access to load) but there are available user IR slots for 3rd party IRs.

I suspect it will be similar for Dyna-Cabs, just that user slots are not yet "visible" to us.

This is pure speculation on my part, though...

Edit:

If Dyna-Cabs existed when the Axe Fx III was created, I suspect they would not be user loadable just like factory IRs are not.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

So much room for growth here. Being in the two note’s ecosystem for a few years, I’ve enjoyed many third party packs including artist and rare cabs. I’m hoping for the same here. Different mics, different pres and different rooms will all make for vastly different results. If I can really daydream, I dream of recording both amped and direct using dynacabs on the amped, then taking the direct, reamping with a real amp and using the same dynacab as a VST plugin. This is the world I want to live in.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Side Note: if it’s a different SIC depending on the amp I’ll assume a neutral SS or tube amp of some sort was used for the current SIC’s?

There is no amp involved. The SIC is measured from the cab... At least, as far as I remember reading.

They want to use a neutral amp, or as neutral as possible. This is from the FX3 manual which describes the process since the FX3 can capture IRs…


Pgs. 91-93 document the basics of the setup.

I think “any amp” assumes it’s capable of avoiding distortion when sending the impulse. Using a Fender Champ to power an SVT cab doesn’t seem like it would get desirable results.

 

[unix-guy]

They want to use a neutral amp, or as neutral as possible. This is from the FX3 manual which describes the process since the FX3 can capture IRs…

View attachment 122232
Pgs. 91-93 document the basics of the setup.

I think “any amp” assumes it’s capable of avoiding distortion when sending the impulse. Using a Fender Champ to power an SVT cab doesn’t seem like it would get desirable results.

I was commenting on the SICs not IRs... Totally different