Dumble update?

echo44 said:
I just built one based on the schematics and the help of others who have dissected the amp. They have more than the schematics
they have the various voltage measurement through out the amps. They even have measured resistance and capacitance values where appropriate unlike many amps there are internal variable resistors that need to be adjusted to get the smoothest tone.
It is a very complex beast. The main guitar signal is carried via coaxial cable rather than standard wire. the outer wire is surrounding the core is grounded in very specific locations in the amp. The coaxial cable itself has a capacitance value that has been documented. The type of resistors and caps at every point is also well documented. End result its the best sounding amp I own!! I am comparing it to my other amps including,
fender original 1965 deluxe reverb, carr , victoria, louis electric , fender 50's high power tweed, metropolitan tone king and the axe.
Playing this amp reminds me, as amazing as the Axe FX is there is still much more to be done to capture that "authentic tube sound" if it is even really possible. That being said, being a cork sniffer tube amp guy, no one has come closer than Cliff and I am sure over the coming years
as the technology evolves the gap will continue to close.

Here is a picture of my amp the inside the white cables are the teflon coated coaxial cables unique to dumble amp
Having built several amps in the past this by far was the most difficult and complex build I have attempted. This amp took me almost a year to build although I worked on it on and off some of the difficulty was finding the exact correct parts, to give you an idea of a comparison It took me only a few hours to build a fender champ.
Click to expand...

I have to ask again:

I can't help wonder; what power amp and cab or monitor do you use with your Axe and what cab do you use with the DIY Dumble?
 
echo44 said:
Playing this amp reminds me, as amazing as the Axe FX is there is still much more to be done to capture that "authentic tube sound" if it is even really possible. That being said, being a cork sniffer tube amp guy, no one has come closer than Cliff and I am sure over the coming years
as the technology evolves the gap will....
Click to expand...
I take statement like these with a grain of salt and I say that cause an amp like this is not "normal" it is almost unfair to compare anything to it lol
 
Cliff could start offering a 'D-Mod' to the Axe itself so the user can take the cover off and twiddle trim pots when using the Dumble model. The trim pots would be encoders for Input Trim and the Amp block graphic EQ but being able to open up the unit and turn them will give the full Dumble experience.

BTW if you're wondering about all those Dumble's that were tuned for a specific players touch - spend a little time with Input Trim and the Amp Block Graphic EQ. Transformer Match, Transformer Drive and Definition are also good parameters to check out with the ODS model.
 
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jeppekristoffer said:
I have to ask again:

I can't help wonder; what power amp and cab or monitor do you use with your Axe and what cab do you use with the DIY Dumble?
Click to expand...

For the Axe Fx I use 2 RCF SMA 12s,

For the Dumble I have tried a few different cabs currently use a bogner 2 X 12 with Celestian vintage 30's sometimes
a marshall 4x12 with greenbacks. It really is an amazing amp. It took so long to build I was very nervous the first time powering it up
was afraid it would smoke. Also was afraid it may not sound good because you never know there are so many factors. I got very very lucky!!


Don't get me wrong I absolutely love my Axe Fx 2 it is another tool in the arsenal.

One interesting issue I would love to hear Cliffs opinion on is tube selection. With the Dumble DYI I spent a day with a friend who has an amazing
ear and we tried out numerous NOS 12ax7 tube combinations as well as modern tubes. It is astonishing how different tubes can sound even to my average ears. some are brighter than others. With some tubes you hear better note differentiation or a more "open Sound" I am curious what on the electronics level
creates these differences and when designing an amp in the axe fx is there away to dial in these differences. Some of the engineers who helped me with the dumble build feel it is related to the amount of amplification of the harmonics(overtones). Some tubes amplify the fundamental more than others.
Before this experience I thought the different tube thing was for cork sniffers but it is real. Some of these perceived difference depends on your ear.
With my ear I could hear a little of the differences. My friend on the hand hears it as drastic. A great example; there is an adjustment to make inside the amp to change the voltages for the phase inverter in order to have the two pair of output tubes balanced voltage. My friend would have me turn the setting until he heard it as "right on" I could hear very little difference. I than checked his accuracy by running a signal generator through the amp input and measuring the side to side voltages( this is the method a technician would use). My friend was dead on every time to 2 decimal points!! I was blown away. I think the lesson learned is there is different levels of perception; some people hear things that not all of us can hear. I must admit most of this is for self gratification however great tone does inspire!!

For me I love the Axe because although it is not a perfect replication(although getting closer with each version) it gets me close enough especially for playing out. It also allows me versatility that would take a huge amount of pedals and amps to duplicate. I also have no intention of taking my vintage amps or this DIY Dumble on a gig unless it was really important. I think Cliff is on track to the Holy Grail for us guitar players.
 
MaxTwang said:
Cliff could start offering a 'D-Mod' to the Axe itself so the user can take the cover off and twiddle trim pots when using the Dumble model. The trim pots would be encoders for Input Trim and the Amp block graphic EQ but being able to open up the unit and turn them will give the full Dumble experience.

BTW if you're wondering about all those Dumble's that were tuned for a specific players touch - spend a little time with Input Trim and the Amp Block Graphic EQ. Transformer Match, Transformer Drive and Definition are also good parameters to check out with the ODS model.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried to mess with the transformer match yet will try that today.

One very surprising thing about the Dumble is the very limited range of the tone controls especially compared to a Fender or Marshall
example: the difference with the treble set to 10 vs 0 is not what we normally expect. The theory is that Dumble knew what sound he was going for
and didn't want the user to mess with it too much. Even the bright switch is so subtle. There is also a PAB channel (pre amp boost) this completely defeats the tone controls and sounds awesome!!!
 
echo44 said:
It is astonishing how different tubes can sound even to my average ears. some are brighter than others. With some tubes you hear better note differentiation or a more "open Sound"
Click to expand...
changeable tubes is coming. not brand-specific, which could probably be done with some final last advanced para tweaks, but types.
 
echo44 said:
I haven't tried to mess with the transformer match yet will try that today.

One very surprising thing about the Dumble is the very limited range of the tone controls especially compared to a Fender or Marshall
example: the difference with the treble set to 10 vs 0 is not what we normally expect. The theory is that Dumble knew what sound he was going for
and didn't want the user to mess with it too much. Even the bright switch is so subtle. There is also a PAB channel (pre amp boost) this completely defeats the tone controls and sounds awesome!!!
Click to expand...
Cliff has talked about how using the advanced parameters can give you the same effect as the reaction a pup swap does and now with 10 we can choose pent l. or Tri. 10 is huge!!
 
I hope Cliff gives us his detailed opinion on whether or not the amp has anything extra special about its functioning, compared to a less-mythical amp.
 
echo44 said:
I just built one based on the schematics and the help of others who have dissected the amp. They have more than the schematics
they have the various voltage measurement through out the amps. They even have measured resistance and capacitance values where appropriate unlike many amps there are internal variable resistors that need to be adjusted to get the smoothest tone.
It is a very complex beast. The main guitar signal is carried via coaxial cable rather than standard wire. the outer wire is surrounding the core is grounded in very specific locations in the amp. The coaxial cable itself has a capacitance value that has been documented. The type of resistors and caps at every point is also well documented. End result its the best sounding amp I own!! I am comparing it to my other amps including,
fender original 1965 deluxe reverb, carr , victoria, louis electric , fender 50's high power tweed, metropolitan tone king and the axe.
Playing this amp reminds me, as amazing as the Axe FX is there is still much more to be done to capture that "authentic tube sound" if it is even really possible. That being said, being a cork sniffer tube amp guy, no one has come closer than Cliff and I am sure over the coming years
as the technology evolves the gap will continue to close.

Here is a picture of my amp the inside the white cables are the teflon coated coaxial cables unique to dumble amp
Having built several amps in the past this by far was the most difficult and complex build I have attempted. This amp took me almost a year to build although I worked on it on and off some of the difficulty was finding the exact correct parts, to give you an idea of a comparison It took me only a few hours to build a fender champ.
Click to expand...

Just wondering where you got the info for the build? Was it a kit, or package you bought, or just schematics? Would love to spend the next year building one! I know Ceriatone.com has several versions available as DIY kits including HRM models and the Dumbleator FX Loop. Any info you have on how to go about things the way you did would be appreciated! How about a TM too?
Thanks!
 
Hello all,

I can't say what the differences between one or another specimen of a particular ODS should be, since I've only played through one real one... but I can say that the model in the Axe-Fx II is a staggeringly accurate reproduction of the amp that Cliff based it on.

I played the latest and greatest version of firmware 10 last night, in a room side by side with a number of the actual amps it has models based on. The Plexi and Two Stone among others really impressed me. I got lost for hours the other night in the DOUBLE VERB. I can't wait for you to try this. If you love amps, you are going to freak out with this release.

As I'd go through models, I'd dial in using two knobs (DRIVE and LEVEL, plus maybe a touch of tweak to TREBLE). In every case, with the footswitch hooked up to toggle between the model and the Axe-Fx, I'd go back and forth, play a bit, go back and forth some more, then ultimately I would need to LOOK to see which one I was playing through. There is a dimensionality in the new firmware that will mark it as a true milestone.

Say what you will, but I'll also add this. In two cases where there was a slight difference, I'd characterize the difference as how "easy" it was to play, with the Axe-Fx actually beating out the real amp. I didn't adjust COMPRESSION more towards zero to see if things equalled out, but that would have been my instinct. Honestly, I'd enjoy pushing it the other way, but I am a compression kinda player.

The main amp in question does NOT sound like the Kaiser by the way! It sounds like a great amp. Personally, I prefer other amp tone "styles" (or to buy a few nice cars) but clearly this amp has had its secrets incorporated into the model to a degree that would not have been possible with previous firmwares.

I'll say one thing for myself though: even on a Dumble, I'm still a fumble.

Dear readers, we are ramping up for one hell of a company-wide release.
 
Thanks M@- I can honestly say you got my attention with that post. I get the feeling everything is about to ratchet up a few notches...
 
Now don't everybody go getting too excited now. "Ramping up" still equates to "soon". This 'soon' is probably 'sooner' than the last 'soon' but it's still 'soon'.

If anyone needs me, I'll be over in the corner with a big bag of 'soon'. Pretty sure I brought enough for the whole class. :mrgreen
 
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