Does anyone use the rear switch jacks?

[Chris Hurley]

As I explore the Axe-fx, I'm considering how I might control it at a show. A lot of shows that I do are at small venues with small stages and small budgets. Sometimes rigs get scaled back as a result and I can see where I might want something smaller than a full-size midi controller. Patch up/down controllers are one option, but perhaps there are others.

So I'm trying to think of creative ways to use the two provided switch jacks in a rock band context where I don't need a pile of sounds- I'm just basically using the Axe-fx to replace a traditional amp, but the twist being that it could be a variety of traditional amps as my tastes change from one year to the next. If I go through a period where I want a cleaner rig, I don't have to drop 2000USD+ on a new amp. Hopefully, the Axe-FX cures that sort of GAS for a long time. (**)

The Axe-fx switch jacks can be configured to do patch changes, and thoughtfully, you can bracket a range of patches that you want to cycle through. If you only want to switch between clean and dirty, you could just bracket two patches and the switch would toggle between them. Toggling between clean/dirty/lead might be challenging since you'd need double taps or single taps depending on where you want to go and where you are now.

Another option is to build a patch like a traditional rig with two channels and then use one switch to toggle between the two chains. Thankfully, that's easily done. The other switch could control a boost block or some other effect. Thats a very traditional setup that has served a lot of people well enough for basic amp applications. I've done a lot of shows where I just had the single channel amp set up how it was set up (crunchy) and used an EQ pedal or volume knob when I needed to clean up and a boost pedal when I needed a lead. There's not a lot to go wrong with that and this setup could be emulated with the Axe-fx since they give you the two switch ports and the thing seems perfectly happy to have pedals up front as well

A continuous controller pedal could likely be configured to pan between two patches, and maybe even to engage a boost when it nears the end of its taper. The problem I've had with things like this in the past is that its hard for me to be accurate enough with my feet sometimes to get the right amount of dirty without getting too dirty, or cleaning up a bit without getting too clean. It takes practice, perhaps.

I wonder how other folks are using the switch jacks and if there are any clever ideas to be had.

(**) And thats a reason why someone might scrimp and stretch and step up and spend 2000USD on the Axe-FX without having thousands more to spend on accessories- so that they have much less of a need to buy more amps in the future. Its all in there, right?

 

[javajunkie]

liquid pro jr, sounds like it may be a good fit for you?

 

[iaresee]

I'm currently plugging my CC pedal into the Axe-Fx -- I don't yet own a MIDI controller that'll take an expression pedal.

If you use a momentary and a CC and simply organized your patches for a show it'd be easy to do patch-up with the switch and then use the CC for things like wah, volume, etc. If you don't use the CC one button might do ya just fine.

 

[Chris Hurley]

liquid pro jr, sounds like it may be a good fit for you?

Sure- a MIDI board is going to be more capable. I was really posting just out of interest of seeing what sort of tricks people can come up with for using the two jacks that are on the device.

I've got a sketch for doing a 3 switch box that will use one jack and deliver:

Channel Switch (A/B)
Toggle Channel A Effect (on/off) (can be more than one block at once, but not individually)
Toggle Channel B Effect (on/off) (can be more than one block at once, but not individually)

Maybe there isn't much interest in such things, but I was amused.

 

[iaresee]

liquid pro jr, sounds like it may be a good fit for you?

Sure- a MIDI board is going to be more capable. I was really posting just out of interest of seeing what sort of tricks people can come up with for using the two jacks that are on the device.

I've got a sketch for doing a 3 switch box that will use one jack and deliver:

Channel Switch (A/B)
Toggle Channel A Effect (on/off) (can be more than one block at once, but not individually)
Toggle Channel B Effect (on/off) (can be more than one block at once, but not individually)

Maybe there isn't much interest in such things, but I was amused.

Can I ask why you'd organize it like channels and not two separate patches? So Channel A is patch 1, B is patch 2? I'm guessing you're doing something with routing to route your input signal through one or the other parallel chains in the matrix -- is that correct? The only reason I could think of to do it like this would be to have reverb spill over when (does the Axe-Fx do reverb spill over or just delay spill over?) when switching between "channels".

I'd personally set up a 3 button setup to do:

Patch up
Patch down
Toggle bypassed blocks in a patch on/off

Channels become patches and you can now access more than just 2 without having to touch the unit.

 

[guitarded]

I was using the rear switch inputs for effect switching, but it didn't work too well for me...
And it is maybe just my ignorance causing the trouble, but when I tried to use a keyboard type (sustain) pedal plugged into one of the switches to control a drive block (for instance) it never engaged on the first stomp...it ALWAYS took 2 stomps when I first tried to switch the effect on...however after that initial successful engage it worked perfectly until I changed patches...then the whole thing started over again.
So now I am using a home-made dual switch plugged into switch 1 & 2 in the axe and control vol INC/DEC.. far less important if it takes a few stomps to engage...
However I hope to look into using them for other things in the future.

 

[Chris Hurley]

Can I ask why you'd organize it like channels and not two separate patches? So Channel A is patch 1, B is patch 2? I'm guessing you're doing something with routing to route your input signal through one or the other parallel chains in the matrix -- is that correct? The only reason I could think of to do it like this would be to have reverb spill over when (does the Axe-Fx do reverb spill over or just delay spill over?) when switching between "channels".

I'd personally set up a 3 button setup to do:

Patch up
Patch down
Toggle bypassed blocks in a patch on/off

Channels become patches and you can now access more than just 2 without having to touch the unit.

Just thinking out loud. Looking at options.

 

[iaresee]

I was using the rear switch inputs for effect switching, but it didn't work too well for me...
And it is maybe just my ignorance causing the trouble, but when I tried to use a keyboard type (sustain) pedal plugged into one of the switches to control a drive block (for instance) it never engaged on the first stomp...it ALWAYS took 2 stomps when I first tried to switch the effect on...however after that initial successful engage it worked perfectly until I changed patches...then the whole thing started over again.

You have to make sure you set the switch type properly. You need to set it to momentary for it to work properly with a sustain pedal. From the manual:

To use the pedal for switching operations such as bypass or preset change be sure to set the pedal type to match the type of footswitch. Momentary footswitches close a contact while the pedal is depressed. They typically do not "click" when pressed. Latching footswitches alternate between contacts closed and opened each time the switch is depressed, they usually click. Internally the Axe-Fx stores a state for the pedal. For momentary footswitches depressing the switch toggles the internal state between 0 and 1. When set to latching the state of the contacts sets the internal state: contacts closed = 0, contacts open = 1. Footswitches are normally used to control an effects bypass state or for preset increment/decrement. Of course one can still assign a footswitch as an external controller but the "value" from the switch will be either 0 or 1. This may be used, for example, to change the rate of a Rotary simulator between two speeds, when the controller is at value 0 the rate would be slow and when at 1 the rate would be fast. This would be setup using a modifier on the Rotary simulator rate control. When using a footswitch to control preset recall, a change of state causes a preset change. For example, if a momentary footswitch is connected depressing the switch toggles the internal state. This in turn would increment/decrement the current preset if configured as such. However, if a latching footswitch were connected but the type is incorrectly set to momentary then the preset would only change every other time the pedal was depressed as it would interpret the first press as the pedal being depressed and the second press as the pedal being released. If the pedal type is set to continuous it CANNOT be used to control bypass or preset change. This prevents unwanted behavior in the event the I/O setup is not exact. Pedal Setup Parameters PEDAL1 TYPE - Chooses the type of pedal: continuous, momentary or latching. PEDAL2 TYPE - Chooses the type of pedal: continuous, momentary or latching. PRESET INCR - Chooses which pedal to use to increment the preset. When the selected pedal is depressed the next preset will be recalled. PRESET DECR - Chooses which pedal to use to decrement the preset. PRESET START/END - When using a footswitch to control preset increment/decrement the preset recalled will range between these values, wrapping around at the limits. For example if you wish to use a single footswitch to change presets you could plug it into PEDAL 2 and set PRESET INCR to PEDAL2. Each time you press the footswitch the preset will increment by one until the PRESET END value is exceed in which case it will jump to the PRESET START value. If you wish to cycle through presets 10 through 14 you would set PRESET START to 10 and PRESET END to 14.

 

[iaresee]

Can I ask why you'd organize it like channels and not two separate patches? So Channel A is patch 1, B is patch 2? I'm guessing you're doing something with routing to route your input signal through one or the other parallel chains in the matrix -- is that correct? The only reason I could think of to do it like this would be to have reverb spill over when (does the Axe-Fx do reverb spill over or just delay spill over?) when switching between "channels".

I'd personally set up a 3 button setup to do:

Patch up
Patch down
Toggle bypassed blocks in a patch on/off

Channels become patches and you can now access more than just 2 without having to touch the unit.

Just thinking out loud. Looking at options.

As an update: I don't know how you'd make a 3 button setup work with only two inputs on the back of the unit. So going with a two button setup I'd choose:

Patch up
Patch down

And just set contiguous patches to act like "channels" or "channel+effects".

 

[Chris Hurley]

I don't know how you'd make a 3 button setup work with only two inputs on the back of the unit. So going with a two button setup I'd choose:

Its a magic trick- I'm pretty sure I can actually get the 3 button arrangement I described working in one jack (the mock-up worked fine). Its sort of a specific arrangement but it might be bendable to other things:

channel or lane switch A/B
on/off for one or a group of effects in Lane A
on/off for one or a group of effects in Lane B

Some guitar amps have 2 button pedals- one toggles between clean and dirty and the other toggles between dirty/lead. The arrangement I have is the same except that there is a third button that might toggle chorus or boost or whatever on the clean side.

On one jack.

I haven't really thought about how the other jack would be used, but preset toggle is probably a good one. I also haven't thought about how I might use both jacks at the same time in a clever switch arrangement.

No, not as simple as a midi pedal and will require patches to be constructed to use it, but it was an amusing mental exercise that I might actually use.

 

[vinceh]

Chris,

I have been thinking doing what you suggest in your original post, i.e., use my two button footswitch from my Flexi to control clean / dirty and the 2nd button for a 6db boost with delay for soloing.

I have a classic rock gig next weekend, while I have the fcb1010 with the uno chip, the simplicity of the above setup is very tempting.

Vince

 

[pneil]

Yeah, I use the rear switch jacks.

I use a pair of midi controllers for patch selection and
individual effects on/off, but I use a pair of Roland momentary
switches to the "utility" work of tuner on/off and tap tempo.
You can never have too many switches .

Pneil

 

[iaresee]

I don't know how you'd make a 3 button setup work with only two inputs on the back of the unit. So going with a two button setup I'd choose:

Its a magic trick- I'm pretty sure I can actually get the 3 button arrangement I described working in one jack (the mock-up worked fine).

Does this mean the Axe-Fx recongizes the different, on a single jack, between: a TS short, an RS short and both shorted at the same time? The manual doesn't make it clear if that's the case. It makes it sound like in switch mode it treats a TS and an RS short as the same thing.

If that's true then yea, a simple Digitech FS3X setup, with three SPST momentaries, will give you three buttons on one TRS line you can assign. I'm really curious now as it could be a pretty sweet minimalist setup. And the switching setup is dirt cheap to build (see this) -- couple of SPST stomps and some diodes.

Some guitar amps have 2 button pedals- one toggles between clean and dirty and the other toggles between dirty/lead. The arrangement I have is the same except that there is a third button that might toggle chorus or boost or whatever on the clean side.

On one jack.

See above as to why this may not be possible -- it all depends on how the Axe-Fx behaves when you tell it the controller input type is a switch.

I haven't really thought about how the other jack would be used, but preset toggle is probably a good one. I also haven't thought about how I might use both jacks at the same time in a clever switch arrangement.

If TS, RS and TRS are all handled separately you've got 6 buttons to layout any way you like. But if TS, RS, and TRS are all handled as the same "switch on" signal than you can only use two buttons, one in each controller input.

No, not as simple as a midi pedal and will require patches to be constructed to use it, but it was an amusing mental exercise that I might actually use.

I'm really hoping it can tell the difference between TS, RS and TRS shorts now -- this could make for a cool really-darn-small-board setup. Patch up, patch down, effects bypass toggle, and three more switches to assign to anything you want. It'd all fit nicely in a pair of 1509B boxes.

 

[gdgross]

On another note, Chris, it's nice to see you over here in digital land!

I haven't completed an amp since I got into the axe...just warnin' ya!

 

[Chris Hurley]

Yeah, I use the rear switch jacks.

I use a pair of midi controllers for patch selection and
individual effects on/off, but I use a pair of Roland momentary
switches to the "utility" work of tuner on/off and tap tempo.
You can never have too many switches .

Pneil

Aha! Tuner.

I don't think I can get that to fix into my trick switch arrangement, but I'm going to have to look into it.

 

[Chris Hurley]

Does this mean the Axe-Fx recongizes the different, on a single jack, between: a TS short, an RS short and both shorted at the same time? The manual doesn't make it clear if that's the case. It makes it sound like in switch mode it treats a TS and an RS short as the same thing.

If that's true then yea, a simple Digitech FS3X setup, with three SPST momentaries, will give you three buttons on one TRS line you can assign. I'm really curious now as it could be a pretty sweet minimalist setup. And the switching setup is dirt cheap to build (see this) -- couple of SPST stomps and some diodes.

I hadn't even considered that approach, but I suspect that it won't work as expected. Maybe it will, though.

See above as to why this may not be possible -- it all depends on how the Axe-Fx behaves when you tell it the controller input type is a switch.

What I've done is to build a patch that goes from clean to clean+boost to dirty to dirty+boost with a continuous controller pedal, except that its not a pot on a pedal- its a pot made from a resistor string with switching to put the "wiper" in certain locations. I'll have to calibrate the controller blocks so that things happen in the order they are supposed to happen, but it appears to work with a continuous controller.

Its a special case and isn't as flexible as you might like, but is more flexible than a single switch.

maybe.

 

[Chris Hurley]

On another note, Chris, it's nice to see you over here in digital land!

I haven't completed an amp since I got into the axe...just warnin' ya!

I guess I shouldn't have used my real name. Now I'll be banned from my own site.

I still enjoy building stuff, as evidenced with this post. I don't know if the Axe-fx will replace real amps for me, but I'm giving it a try.

 

[iaresee]

What I've done is to build a patch that goes from clean to clean+boost to dirty to dirty+boost with a continuous controller pedal, except that its not a pot on a pedal- its a pot made from a resistor string with switching to put the "wiper" in certain locations. I'll have to calibrate the controller blocks so that things happen in the order they are supposed to happen, but it appears to work with a continuous controller.

Its a special case and isn't as flexible as you might like, but is more flexible than a single switch.

maybe.

Ahh. That's pretty brute force!

I've asked about the TRS thing and momentaries over here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8009 -- I figured a properly titled thread might elicit the right responses to my question. If it works then what you're trying to do just gets a whole lot easier.

 

[aleclee]

So I'm trying to think of creative ways to use the two provided switch jacks in a rock band context where I don't need a pile of sounds- I'm just basically using the Axe-fx to replace a traditional amp, but the twist being that it could be a variety of traditional amps as my tastes change from one year to the next.

If I was going to do this, the first thing I'd try is using the switches like stompboxes. Between songs you could switch patches manually using the controls on the front panel and then during the song use one switch to go between clean/dirty or boosted/cut (depending on the song) and the other to turn an effect on/off.

 

[Chris Hurley]

Ahh. That's pretty brute force!

I've asked about the TRS thing and momentaries over here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8009 -- I figured a properly titled thread might elicit the right responses to my question. If it works then what you're trying to do just gets a whole lot easier.

The best I can come up for a single jack on the axe-fx with a foot interface that makes some sort of sense to use is:

Channel A
Channel A + (one or more effects)
Channel B
Channel B + (one or more effects)

With a powered footswitch and gates, I could probably add "Channel B + boost + delay", but its not really worth the effort.

The arrangement above makes an easy-to-build, easy-to-understand amp-like controller... except that I don't really have a box suitable for 3 switches, so mine will likely just be Channel A/Channel B and Channel B Boost (on/off)

I sent an email to FA about firmware support for parsing a simple passive switch array, but no response and I don't think it will work properly as I currently envision it anyway. This simpler version would work and doesn't need firmware support.