Does anyone have the axe fx 2 Redwirez Bigbox IR that they can email me?

Yea, I know, but the lines are so blurry sometimes - you have people doing covers on YouTube who have ACTUALLY become pretty famous because of it, and are now doing well with their own material after using other people's to get them recognition, even so, some of them actually get spots on tv shows like that - I can call numerous occasions where I saw people doing their popular YouTube covers on Ellen for eg. Is that stealing as well? You're using someone else's work to propell your own career. Don't want to go off topic - just looking at things from a different perspective.

Btw - YouTube is about as public as it gets as well - you'll prob get even MORE of a public viewing than at a public venue - food for thought!


Back to topic tho - after all the hard work that goes into redwirez and own hammer IRs, and based on how useful they are, I really find it hard to believe a decent self respecting player who, just like the rest of us, would like to be paid for his work/playing, and is so quick to cheat someone else out of their work and NOT pay. How would you feel if people were always making you play for free? Well I won't mind personally, but at some point, the issue of money DOES come up, and I'd like to be paid what I think my playing is worth. So pay redwirez, their stuff is worth it!
 
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I wish there were some folks who decided to share a whole bunch of stuff on those illegal download sites, like Protools, and waves, and redwirez, and all the other plug-ins and software we all use......

And hidden in each "install" file was a little line of code right at the end saying "delete c:" (or whatever the new way to delete is, it's been since MS-Dos that I've coded, just do it automatically with no way to cancel once install starts). Every install of the program rendered the CPU completely useless....If that spread through the "illegal download community", that'd teach some people not to steal software.
 
Some companies have been known to slip (unofficially) malicious code into 'cracked' ware - they've been doing it since Mario bros days! Lol
 
knoll said:
Your worry may be unfounded. Your band is guilty only if it is the organizer/venue of the event where the cover song is performed. It is the venue's/organizer's responsibility to report the played songs and pay the appropriate fees.
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I was under the same impression. But after some Googling... I think the band could be responsible if the venue does not have any license agreements with any royalty management organizations.

Bottom of page 8:

http://escholarshare.drake.edu/bitstream/handle/2092/1591/05. Copyright and Music.pdf?sequence=36

Richard
 
barhrecords said:
I was under the same impression. But after some Googling... I think the band could be responsible if the venue does not have any license agreements with any royalty management organizations.

Bottom of page 8:

http://escholarshare.drake.edu/bitstream/handle/2092/1591/05. Copyright and Music.pdf?sequence=36

Richard
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Based on the ton of research I did, you are correct. The band "could" be held liable if the venue doesn't have a license. Bit in reality, ASCAP is not going to go after some cover band that [on average] very makes little money. Not worth their time, not worth the bad publicity, so they go after the venue.
Now, if you decide to put your version of a song (or songs) on a CD and sell them at gigs? Yes, they will come down hard. Last time I checked, it was something like 28 cents per song per CD for royalties.
 
s0c9 said:
Based on the ton of research I did, you are correct. The band "could" be held liable if the venue doesn't have a license. Bit in reality, ASCAP is not going to go after some cover band that [on average] very makes little money. Not worth their time, not worth the bad publicity, so they go after the venue.
Now, if you decide to put your version of a song (or songs) on a CD and sell them at gigs? Yes, they will come down hard. Last time I checked, it was something like 28 cents per song per CD for royalties.
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My impressions too, you might get singled out as an example for performing, but probably not even though it could be a copyright violation.

But selling any merchandise that infringes on copyrights will be noticed and dealt with (IMO as it should be).

Richard
 
C.Y.A. - (Cover Your Ass...)

mortega76 said:
heck, even cover bands are doing "worse" by not paying royalties to the original artists where they are "stealing" their music every time they perform covers live. We play a cover track pretty much ever show... so my band is guilty of this...
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Hi Mo,

I've read many informative, helpful, and insightful posts/replies by you on these forums, but I must say that I'm a bit disappointed in your misrepresentation of facts, specifically as it pertains to your analogy between the OP's obvious attempt to steal/pirate software AND a cover-band's LIVE-PERFORMANCE of a cover-song. You could NOT be more wrong sir!

If you had qualified your argument to state that a cover-band which RECORDS a cover-song (VIDEO or AUDIO) without the proper licensing-permission (I.E: Compulsory-Licences) from the original owner of the publishing rights (...btw, NOT necessarily always the same person or organization who actually WROTE the song!) and stood to profit from said recording, then THAT would've been a different argument/analogy (and I would NOT have taken exception to it!) BTW, cover-songs recorded (in Video & Audio) for YouTube-upload would DEFINITELY fall under this aforementioned category of RECORDED (Audio & Video) Cover-Songs which REQUIRE Compulsory-Licensing, or else IT WOULD BE STEALING!

HOWEVER, since you specified that a cover-band who performs a cover-song in a LIVE-PERFORMANCE was in essence stealing income form the original artist, then you are FLAT-OUT WRONG! See below for a better, more organized, more legally accurate description of what I am alluding to here!:

"When you perform cover songs, the writers and publishers are paid through performing right societies such as ASCAP, BMI, SOCAN, or PRS. One way these performing rights organizations (often referred to as PROs) collect royalties is by charging a fee to bars and live music venues. Next time you walk into a club, look for a PRO sticker on the door or front window. That means they are paying their dues so they can have a jukebox, DJ, or live bands that might play cover songs. There are two important things to keep in mind about PROs:

1. They collect royalties for public performances, not for the sale of recorded music. That is considered private use.

2. As a performer, you do not have to pay performance royalties. These are paid by the venue which hired you to perform. However, if you record your show and sell it as a live album, you will need to pay for the compulsory licenses."

As a long-time cover-band performer, I take exception to this misrepresentation of fact. That's all...

mortega76 said:
"We have ALL fallen short of the Glory of God..."
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Let's keep CLIFF out of this - LOL!


Bill
 
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@billmeedog - with the exception of performing a copyrighted work in a venue that has no agreement with any performing rights organization. Under those conditions the performer could be liable for royalty payment to the copyright holder.
 
barhrecords said:
@billmeedog - with the exception of performing a copyrighted work in a venue that has no agreement with any performing rights organization. Under those conditions the performer could be liable for royalty payment to the copyright holder.
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Possibly, but you could also put it in your contract that it is the venue's responsibility to pay all royalty charges to ascap, etc and you the performer hold no responsibilities.

I REALLY doubt they will come after any coverband just playing covers, and not recording, posting, selling etc the stuff. They will go after the venue, since that is where the bigger money and worse violation is.

We as performers are holding the assumption that since the venue did not state "Original Music Only", then they pay the required fees to allow cover music to be played. I have been in a club that required only original music. They had no juke box, no DJ, only live original music. Not sure if it was an illegal thing they had going or not, but you signed a paper stating all original.
 
wake911 said:
Possibly, but you could also put it in your contract that it is the venue's responsibility to pay all royalty charges to ascap, etc and you the performer hold no responsibilities.

I REALLY doubt they will come after any coverband just playing covers, and not recording, posting, selling etc the stuff. They will go after the venue, since that is where the bigger money and worse violation is.

We as performers are holding the assumption that since the venue did not state "Original Music Only", then they pay the required fees to allow cover music to be played. I have been in a club that required only original music. They had no juke box, no DJ, only live original music. Not sure if it was an illegal thing they had going or not, but you signed a paper stating all original.
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yep
 
So all in all... the absolute, positively, undeniable answer about whether or not a (cover) band is "breaking the law" when performing an "unlicensed" cover song is a big... fat... maybe... awesome! So in the end... the artists get screwed and the the lawyers win! ;)

I guess since we live in a country that imports everything from china with workers that get paid pennies a day... musicians should feel right at home with their royalties! ;)
 
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mortega76 said:
So all in all... the absolute, positively, undeniable answer about whether or not a (cover) band is "breaking the law" when performing an "unlicensed" cover song is a big... fat... maybe... awesome! So in the end... the artists get screwed and the the lawyers win! ;)

I guess since we live in a country that imports everything from china with workers that get paid pennies a day... musicians should feel right at home with their royalties! ;)
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So if your band plays a cover song in the woods and no one hears it....????
 
mortega76 said:
Damn... you guys are hardcore! ;)

But in reality... his "request" is no different that someone stealing office supplies (pen, paper, etc) from work... downloading music... downloading movies... heck, even cover bands are doing "worse" by not paying royalties to the original artists where they are "stealing" their music every time they perform covers live. We play a cover track pretty much ever show... so my band is guilty of this...
Click to expand...

ASCAP, BMI etc have now attached themselves to the venues, so you shouldn't worry too much about someone not getting royalties for performance material. Back in the old days, 70's & 80's these organizations would go after performers for royaly fees, but they discovered that getting the fees from the venues was easier than trying to track down a traveling performer, and in some cases healthier than holding negotiations in an alley behind the venue ;). If a venue has a jukebox then they're paying fees.
As for the OP... they're a steal @ twice the price, now you can feel better about buying them.
 
I love it when hairs are being split. It helps to compensates for my receding hairline. "he who is without offense cast the first office pen"... and don't for get the "whiteout". But please, no throwing at the face though... it's all fun and games til someone loses an eye.:lol
 
Steal:
~to take the property of another wrongfully
~to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully
~to take another persons property without permission or legal right and without intending to return it
~the illegal taking of another persons property without their freely given consent or without permission

Thief:
~one that steals
____________

The software thing:
If I download any content that is supposed to be paid for and I don't pay for it I have stolen and I am a thief. This is a simple truth that I get to face (or turn my face from) in internet world.

~I used to download all sorts of stuff without a thought. Even though I wasn't thinking about it back then I was stealing and I was a thief.
~When I started thinking about it I developed arguments in my head about what I would and wouldn't download and why. All the nuanced arguments in this case did not negate the original act of stealing. I selectively stole things. I was still a thief.
~When I decided that I no longer wanted to be a thief I stopped stealing. I no longer steal. I am no longer a thief.

So there I sat with a computer full of stolen goods. A lot of the stolen items on my computer were things I used to make a living. It cost me a lot of money to put things right. I chose not to steal. I chose not to be a thief... ...and I didn't install a cutoff point for keeping goods stolen before my change of heart. It all had to go and/or be paid for. Yes, my music library is A LOT smaller than it used to be... ...and that's okay...

I choose not to steal. I choose not to be a thief.

The decision is by me and for me. I want nothing for it. Well, I do sleep better at night.

The decision may only have a small, one might even argue unnoticeable, effect on the world at large. This fact is irrelevant and off-point. It is the inverse of "...casting stones...".

What Scott Peterson said:
"Stealing is bad."
QFT
 
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