Do I have a lemon?

TedEH said:
In some fairness, whether or not it's statistically significant doesn't really help me if I'm the outlier. Point was that I know I'm not the only one to have run into some kind of issue, and the response I got from support made it at least feel like it was common enough that they had a prepared response for it. (Kind of like what stub is suggesting about triaging.) Do I know enough to know that the USB chip is literally fried? Of course not. But I know just enough to suspect that there's no significant mechanical strain, or signs of physical damage. And I've used enough USB devices to know that plugging them in shouldn't make my other devices shut off for a moment.
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.....
TedEH said:
So it seems like I can:
  • Do nothing. Resign to having no USB. Always bring a backup solution.
  • Switch back to using my old tube amps and the FM3 is the backup
  • Pay a bunch of money and hope it's fixed.
  • Pay a bunch of money and get a new one
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Yep.

It's a real bummer that you're having issues, but extrapolating your dissatisfaction with your used unit into widespread problems or design flaws is kind of absurd. It's far more likely that your problems are caused by the previous owner's inability to keep beverages off the unit rather than Fractal's inability to get their design right. It's baffling why anyone would prefer to try and blame the manufacturer instead of the schmuck that took their hard-earned cash.

Fix it or don't, just like you said. But consider getting the schmuck involved and getting some of that hard-earned cash back.
 
My USB lost audio interface capabilities a while back (out of warranty). Also, if the USB is connected while the power is off, The main screen lights up and a loud humming noise comes out of output 1. I just have to power on before connecting the USB and disconnect the USB before powering off. The unit otherwise works normally and the editor still works.

The repair was estimated at around $500. So, I am just living with it at this point.
 
TedEH said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that there's risk involved in buying a used device, and that's on me. But at the same time, there's enough stories out there of people reporting the same or similar symptoms. When I contacted support about it, the answer was quick to go strait to "yeah, send it in, the repair is $450" without any troubleshooting, which suggests that it's not an unknown issue. The first link here is the one that suggests that a ground loop from using different outlets can cause connectivity issues.

View attachment 124075
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That message refers to ground loops. They can interfere with connectivity, but they won't fry anything. "Fried" means damaged to the point where it can never work again. Ground loop issues are temporary. They end when the ground loop is removed.
 
kywabunga said:
widespread problems or design flaws
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I didn't say it was widespread, and I can speculate all I want to. ¯\(ツ)/¯ I'm not the only one who has had their USB fail on them. And I'm of the opinion that USB shouldn't make other devices flicker. "Is this just me, or a more widespread thing" was literally the point/question of the thread, and I pointed to some things that would make me suspect/speculate that it's a known issue. Given my options, I think it's valuable to try to form a picture of how common these kinds of things are, so that I don't do something like buy another one just to find out it IS a common problem and I've wasted a bunch of money to return to square one. This stuff is expensive enough to warrant being critical about it.

Illustrating my point - Moke's experience sounds very similar to mine before the USB stopped working entirely.

Rex said:
Ground loop issues are temporary. They end when the ground loop is removed.
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I'm not anything close to an electrical engineer, I'm not going to claim to know what damage a ground loop can or can't do before it's removed. I just see things that read to me as symptoms of the USB not behaving the way it's supposed to. FM3 + USB = some people have problems. How many people? I don't know. That was the question I'm trying to answer.

Moke said:
The repair was estimated at around $500. So, I am just living with it at this point.
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This is where I was at up until yesterday. I can live with no USB. Suddenly losing all my settings with no warning or explanation though is a whoooole other thing.

GitGuy513 said:
What a sad personality and character defect. Seek help.
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I really don't care about your forum politics or whatever. If we're going to argue, can we at least argue with me, so that I can learn something valuable about the subject at hand?
 
Going a step farther -> in terms of "claiming it's widespread", I've asked this same question on other forums, and also got people telling stories that their USB failed, they got them replaced, and then they failed again.
1690398704741.png
 
TedEH said:
Yeah, you're probably right. I wasn't expecting a resolution this way, was just hoping to get a wider picture of whether or not reliability was a concern for the average user. Oh well. Forum's gonna forum I guess.
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And I’d wager that the majority of FM3 owners out there don’t even post on this forum.
 
TedEH said:
I'm not anything close to an electrical engineer, I'm not going to claim to know what damage a ground loop can or can't do before it's removed. I just see things that read to me as symptoms of the USB not behaving the way it's supposed to. FM3 + USB = some people have problems.
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No worries. I just clarified the statement for the benefit of anyone who might read this thread and think, "Oh, crap! This could fry my USB port?" No, it won't.
 
I think it's safe to say that Fractal has very good reliability. However, that doesn't mean every unit that ever rolled out never had a problem. Also, when buying used you don't know how the unit may have been mis-treated. That's the biggest problem when buying used. The person may be dumping it because they know it's been abused and barely works.

Spend the $450, get it fixed.
 
Joel.Brown333 said:
I think it's safe to say that Fractal has very good reliability. However, that doesn't mean every unit that ever rolled out never had a problem. Also, when buying used you don't know how the unit may have been mis-treated. That's the biggest problem when buying used. The person may be dumping it because they know it's been abused and barely works.

Spend the $450, get it fixed.
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Better yet; file a claim with PayPal if you are still within your purchase timeframe and get the seller to cover the repair.
 
Hi Ted,

Always have a backup! Even if is some shitty line 6 product in the glove box - always have a backup.
In your position, I’d buy another fm3 as a backup, and ship the damaged unit for repair. Then you’d have an fm3 for playing, and and fm3 for backup. Sounds extravagant possibly, but nobody has ever regretted carrying a spare wheel when they got a flat!

Thanks
Pauly
TedEH said:
In some fairness, whether or not it's statistically significant doesn't really help me if I'm the outlier. Point was that I know I'm not the only one to have run into some kind of issue, and the response I got from support made it at least feel like it was common enough that they had a prepared response for it. (Kind of like what stub is suggesting about triaging.) Do I know enough to know that the USB chip is literally fried? Of course not. But I know just enough to suspect that there's no significant mechanical strain, or signs of physical damage. And I've used enough USB devices to know that plugging them in shouldn't make my other devices shut off for a moment.


On paper, this is the right thing to do. In practice, the cost and headache are difficult to swallow. It's likely to cost me around $500 for the repair, plus whatever the international shipping is from Quebec. Then during that time, I normally use this for two different instruments and three different bands, so I have to work out three backup solutions, since we have shows booked through to November. Also, having no USB means I have no backups, meaning a good chance I lose all my sounds in the exchange.

I had the thought that by the time I pay for repair costs, I could almost just buy a new one and offload this one as-is minus the same repair cost, and it works out to being similar to the same out-of-pocket to at least be left with a warranty.

So it seems like I can:
  • Do nothing. Resign to having no USB. Always bring a backup solution.
  • Switch back to using my old tube amps and the FM3 is the backup
  • Pay a bunch of money and hope it's fixed.
  • Pay a bunch of money and get a new one
Click to expand...
 
I've had to send an FM3 in for repair because the USB just stopped connecting. The unit was out of warranty so it cost about $500 to fix because that fix required replacing the main board, not just some "USB components."

I feel like I've seen a few threads here about USB issues. I'm not sure if many were solved by using different/shorter cables or similar "simple" solutions I've seen mentioned.

I don't think the problem is "normal", but it's also not a one-off. I do wonder what causes it--is it due to trauma to the jack, or is it something that might just happen occasionally due to something unavoidable? Interesting. I also wonder if it's limited to the FM3. 🤔

Anyway, yeah it sucks and I hope you get it solved @TedEH
 
pauly said:
In your position, I’d buy another fm3 as a backup, and ship the damaged unit for repair. Then you’d have an fm3 for playing, and and fm3 for backup. Sounds extravagant possibly, but nobody has ever regretted carrying a spare wheel when they got a flat!
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I do have some backup solutions for now, which are equally extravagant - the plan is, for this weekend at least, to pick another amp to bring along. I normally base my presets on Mark models because I have a couple of those real amps and that tone is my comfort-zone. I've got a V:25 that should cover me if anything goes wrong.

I've got a backup bass solution as well, but it's not as extravagant, so I'd be missing out on my bass tone for a while. Not the end of the world, but still annoying.

So far the most appealing plan would be to get a new one (Turbo II? FM9 to get the dual amp blocks?), keep the old one long enough to copy my presets and stuff over (which I assume I have to do by hand since there's no USB), then offload the old one for cheap as-is (whatever the used price is, minus the repair cost maybe, so that it might be worth it for someone else to repair it without taking a loss).
 
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