Did not like the Helix Stadium XL....

From my understanding 95% of this is currently the old Helix on better hardware, with about a dozen new amps with the new modeling that takes a similar approach to what Fractal has been doing for almost 20 years.I
like where they're going. But this won't be a mature product for a few years.
Not really true at all. It's a mature product right out of the gate because it picks up and vastly improves upon the sound of the original Helix with ALL of that unit's features to start plus a whole lot more new features on day one that they'll only continue to add ongoing. Will it continue to improve? For sure.
 
Funny how people in the Line 6 forums posted they can't get on with Fractal....

Tribalism, eh.
It's silly. These are both exceptionally capable units. I hesitate to post anything good about the competition here because, hey, this IS the Fractal forum. But I think it's good to look at other units and how they work because it's clearly spurred improvements between the two camps in the past. There's a good bit of misinformation in this thread about the Stadium from people that spent, what? Less than a day with it? Would anyone spend less than a day with a Fractal unit and send it back? No, because you'd be told to expect a learning curve and it takes time, etc.

Again, so nobody thinks I'm some kind of Line6 "shill", I have no relationship with that brand. I own and love both Fractal and Line6 units. If that's an issue and it gets this thread locked like the last Stadium thread got locked then whatever.
 
It's silly. These are both exceptionally capable units. I hesitate to post anything good about the competition here because, hey, this IS the Fractal forum. But I think it's good to look at other units and how they work because it's clearly spurred improvements between the two camps in the past. There's a good bit of misinformation in this thread about the Stadium from people that spent, what? Less than a day with it? Would anyone spend less than a day with a Fractal unit and send it back? No, because you'd be told to expect a learning curve and it takes time, etc.

Again, so nobody thinks I'm some kind of Line6 "shill", I have no relationship with that brand. I own and love both Fractal and Line6 units. If that's an issue and it gets this thread locked like the last Stadium thread got locked then whatever.
Get that man a beer.

I fully agree; I'm fortunate to own the AFX3, QC and the Stadium so can directly compare all 3. They're all amazing units with different strenghs and weaknesses. Whichever you use, you're in for a good time.

It just seems to me that certain fan bases are quicker to 'poo-poo' the competition than others.

And before anyone claims ME of being a shill - I gigged the AFX3 at my regular gig last Saturday, and that's not going to change for the immediate future. Again, different strengths and weaknesses compared to the QC and Stadium.
 
Get that man a beer.

I fully agree; I'm fortunate to own the AFX3, QC and the Stadium so can directly compare all 3. They're all amazing units with different strenghs and weaknesses. Whichever you use, you're in for a good time.

It just seems to me that certain fan bases are quicker to 'poo-poo' the competition than others.

And before anyone claims ME of being a shill - I gigged the AFX3 at my regular gig last Saturday, and that's not going to change for the immediate future. Again, different strengths and weaknesses compared to the QC and Stadium.
Of you wanted to dive into the minefield of petting your opinion of those strengths and weaknesses, I'd read it :)
 
Get that man a beer.

I fully agree; I'm fortunate to own the AFX3, QC and the Stadium so can directly compare all 3. They're all amazing units with different strenghs and weaknesses. Whichever you use, you're in for a good time.

It just seems to me that certain fan bases are quicker to 'poo-poo' the competition than others.

And before anyone claims ME of being a shill - I gigged the AFX3 at my regular gig last Saturday, and that's not going to change for the immediate future. Again, different strengths and weaknesses compared to the QC and Stadium.
Over-simplifying it, I think it's the psychology of, "I spent my money well." [EDIT: to be clear, I think people being critical of competing to the products they own help them feel better about their purchase.]

I try to live by, "I love/am content with what I have, but it's cool there are other great options."

My friends think that I'm a huge Fractal fanboy... which, well, yeah, I am. But that doesn't make the other products bad. I just like my Fractal gear. My biggest limitations lately have been time, so I don't want to spend my money on expensive alternatives just to play with something else and I'm comfortable with that because Fractal has never disappointed me. But that doesn't make other products bad.
 
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One thing I do not understand is why a Stadium and an FM9 has not been tested side by side by one of the influences. Let's see what the Aguora engine is really all about.
The cynic in me says that there is some kind of time limit before comparisons are allowed in the conditions that let influencers get them free.

I mean, it's the comparison everyone wants: put the first 'new gen' product up against QC, Fractal, UA etc. The silence is...somewhat deafening, despite the fact I like L6 and think competition is good.
 
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It's a mature product right out of the gate [...]
Hmmmm. I might pick one up eventually. Not because I need it, but out of curiosity. I won't consider it seriously, until:

  • gapless switching is implemented
  • editing can be done over USB, not just buggy wi-fi
  • all features discussed at launch are present

It's not a mature product until those are done. Obviously, I wouldn't be considering it if I thought it didn't have promise. I do think that their foray into 'production' features with Showcase will be fascinating.
 
Hmmmm. I might pick one up eventually. Not because I need it, but out of curiosity. I won't consider it seriously, until:

  • gapless switching is implemented
  • editing can be done over USB, not just buggy wi-fi
  • all features discussed at launch are present

It's not a mature product until those are done. Obviously, I wouldn't be considering it if I thought it didn't have promise. I do think that their foray into 'production' features with Showcase will be fascinating.
Wait. You can't edit it over USB yet? Just WiFi and On-Unit? That's surprising. You'd think they'd launch with USB and add the WiFi later.
 
editing can be done over USB, not just buggy wi-fi
Zero issues with WiFi editing. Lightning fast, and actually a lot more convenient since it's one less cable and it can be as far away from your interface as audio cable length will allow. I'm surprised at how well it works.

I honestly don't use the editor for anything but loading IRs or exporting/importing presets. The on unit editing makes the computer based editor seem archaic. But I get why it might be convenient when the unit is on the floor.
 
Funny how people in the Line 6 forums posted they can't get on with Fractal....

Tribalism, eh.
That kind of tribalism shows up in practically every interest: Mac vs. PC, Ford vs. Chevy, PlayStation vs. Xbox, Glock vs. Smith & Wesson, etc.

The older I get, the more ridiculous the whole thing seems. I ran an HX Stomp as a backup to my FM3 until I picked up a second FM3 from a good guy on this very forum. I still fire up Helix Native all the time for tracking ideas and quick demos.

Not to sound cliché, but we really are living in the golden age of gear. These days it’s honestly not hard to get a killer tone out of just about anything.
 
My main issue with the Stadium is the built-in expression pedal. Yes, the non-XL version omits it, but at the cost of losing the scribble strips—and for me, scribble strips are non-negotiable.
Same here. Not having scribble strips on the Stadium is a baffling decision.
 
Hmmmm. I might pick one up eventually. Not because I need it, but out of curiosity. I won't consider it seriously, until:

  • gapless switching is implemented
  • editing can be done over USB, not just buggy wi-fi
  • all features discussed at launch are present

It's not a mature product until those are done. Obviously, I wouldn't be considering it if I thought it didn't have promise. I do think that their foray into 'production' features with Showcase will be fascinating.
Yeah that's good rule of thumb - buy a product for the features it has today.

I jumped early partly because of the 15% coupons at MF applying to the pre-order, partly because Line6 already has a good track record of updating their FW too - not at the pace of Fractal (which is unmatched) but I wanted to try it first hand.
 
It's not a mature product until those are done. Obviously, I wouldn't be considering it if I thought it didn't have promise. I do think that their foray into 'production' features with Showcase will be fascinating.
For what it's worth, we should remember that we didn't have gapless switching here in Fractal land until what? Last year? And I'm talking about audio gaps between scenes. Were Fractal products not mature until then? Helix had gapless between scenes (snapshots) ages before that and still does.

Showcase might be interesting but I really wonder how many people will use it. I have zero plans or use for it as we already have tools for that kind of thing implemented. I think most people will be happy with quality amp and effects modeling, ease of getting the sounds you want, and never venture into Showcase.
 
So did all of our products when used in a way analogous to Helix snapshots: changing channels across the same type within a preset. That goes back all the way to Axe-Fx II and "XY".
I'm referring to the audio gap channel fix that happened about a year ago, especially when switching amps and drive stomps? I remember you even had your avatar reflecting that gapless update.
 
I'm referring to the audio gap channel fix that happened about a year ago, especially when switching amps and drive stomps? I remember you even had your avatar reflecting that gapless update.
Understood. I'm just saying that that update provided something new. The Axe-Fx already had something quite close to what Helix had in "gapless between scenes".
 
Well at least you tried it - I was not impressed initially with the initial presets but I wasn't going to send it back without really exploring it - I'm glad I did.

Nah - you gotta give kudos where it's warranted, criticism where it's not. I'm personally not saying it's a "brand X" killer. If you are talking about the influence sphere - well... that's a different story.


Sure that's possible - but to me it boils down to each users needs and preferences. Every device have a set of pluses and minuses. Competition is good.
Just for Absolute clarity - I am not poopooing Line 6. I am simply stating that to my ears I don't get it.
Anyone that legitimately says that the models in the Stadium have the dynamics and tone of the Fractal - well... we just have different ears.

It has a lot of gadetry. Workflows might benefit someone. But when we have most of the modelers to play with, I just don't hear anything special about the sounds its putting out. But I guess in full disclaimer - I have never likes any of the Line 6 products from inception (and I don't have to). But that me.
 
Huge preset sound gaps when switching and the amp modeling is still nowhere near the tactile and realism that Fractal does in spades. The notes felt disconnected when I played and instantly felt strange and not as flowy.

I was hoping modeling was there and was looking forward to ease of effect and button switch. But the modeling was not there so the ease of effect trades was a non start for me. The startup window alone was cheap looking and booted odd.

Just FYI....my view from using Fractal for a long time.

All the demos of Helix Stadium show it sounds very similar to an earlier Line 6 Helix with slightly better effects and an even better UI. A great UI is nice, but sound is 99.99% the most important. Fractal amp models, if you turn all the effects off and have, say, 3% of a medium room reverb, are much better and closer to a real amp. The effects are also far superior on the Axe FX. For example, reverbs near Lexicon quality, and the analogue Chorus is so close to the best in the world, TC Electronic 1210 rack, that you wouldn't tell the difference in the mix. I sold the TC1210.

Fractal also regularly updates DSP memory and amp quality. Line 6 kept the DSP, memory, and amp quality on the original amps the same for 10 years... what a poor value proposition they are. Imagine selling a PC for $1500 with a 10-year-old CPU, GPU, and slow memory in 2019 and 2024. That is Line 6’s philosophy. Axe FX is number one for sound, even if the UI is clunky and has a century-old design.
 
Literally Fractal just needs to make effects and button swapping easier and it is perfect for me. But the sound is the most important and I have tried all things and nothing beats Fractal. Just see what the YouTubers that review all this stuff.....they almost all use Fractal for their personal use, even though they review everything. That speaks volumes. Also Fractal is the only direct market retailer in this space and that is huge. The constant updates make the Fractal a true joy and value is unrivaled.
 
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