Dialing OUT the digital Axe-Fx midrange

Status
Not open for further replies.
"Poorly modeled" is a far better term than "digital." Same holds true for an analog model of an item, event, or system.

Sometimes it's the unit itself, and sometimes it's the way it was dialed in. In the case of the latter, things can get tricky because oftentimes the person struggling with the unit is already frustrated and shorter of temper than normal
 
Describing an undesirable tonal characteristic as "digital" only makes sense if that characteristic is actually a direct consequence of the system in question being digital. Aliasing and quantization noise are two examples. The mere fact that the system is digital doesn't imply that this is the cause of every perceived shortfall. "Digital" is not and should not be a universal term to describe every unsatisfactory aspect of a digital modeler's eq, any more than an eq problem with an analog amp should be described as problem with "analog."

Edit: nevermind this has gone on too long lol
 
Last edited:
I understand what you're saying. But let's say a person does not know what "aliasing", "quantization noise" or any other modeler-enthusiast-specific terminology is. That person comes here asking for help with a tone they perceive is "digital". They are met with suspicion and/or dismissal, as use of that term is considered "red flag" or otherwise inappropriate, due to the reasons you just listed. What should that person have done differently to avoid this?

More often than not, people here do try to troubleshoot the issue to find out exactly what the problem is. That happened in this thread.
 
I've found this to be "sorta" true with the Dyna-Cabs. I've found that the positioning controls are very powerful for bringing out the mid range speaker response. Try this mix. I've found it works on all the Dyna Cabs I've tried. Mic=Dyn 1, Position=6.00, Distance=12.25 + Mic=Ribbon Position=4 Distance 12.00-14.00. Speaker High and Low cuts to taste and Preamp tab High/Low cuts wide open, 6db.
I also like the Condenser by itself with similar settings.
IMO, using the position controls, the mids can become much more present and the low and highs are attenuated somewhat, but in more natural way than say eq or cuts.
I tried this out and it is the best I have ever gotten the DC's to sound. I tried it in cab lab and got great results there too. Thanks for the tip!
 
More often than not, people here do try to troubleshoot the issue to find out exactly what the problem is. That happened in this thread.

Yeah for sure, I'm just addressing the "red flag" nature of the term someone brought up way above. For the record I don't think anything about the Axe FX is "digital", but it is how I would describe the feeling I got with the HX Stomp as well as some of the bazillion plugins out there.
 
The AxeFx is great because it handles all types of music: thrash metal, prog metal, death metal, metal core…
Sure, I know that. Did I say something to the contrary? actually you only mention one genre? I didn't realize that those were the only types of music today. Good to know!
 
I'm with @RifferMcDuck regarding the lack of understanding the terminology to describe certain sounds. Sounds are difficult to describe using words and those unfamiliar with the technical terms attempt to convey what we are hearing only to fall back on "it sounds digital".

Case in point, I was close to getting a Helix a number of years ago but there was something in the gain structure that reminded me of the XT line that sounded/felt "digital". The reason is probably going to be "aliasing" or some other technical term, but unless I know what these terms sound like, it's going to continue to be called "digital" sounding while trying to explain what I'm hearing. I'm not one to use words to describe something without knowing what they mean.

I've spent a little time to try to understand the different aspects of great vs good vs poor modeling and trying to hear their associated sounds. I don't spend much time on it anymore because there are things I'd rather do. Speaking of which, time to go harrass the grandkids.

I think it’s fair to call the sound description “digital” because as far as I know, tube amps don’t have aliasing. Tube amps generate natural harmonics and harmonic and intermodulation distortions, dynamic sag and transient responses, but they’re not artifacts, they’re part of the tone.

Saying something “sounds digital” in a modeling context is kind of like saying a painting “looks CGI.” It doesn’t necessarily mean it was made by a computer, but that it feels like it lacks some of the imperfections or quirks we associate with something hand-made or organic. It’s shorthand. A vibe. A flag we throw when something doesn’t feel right, even if we can’t always define why.

“Wooly” for bloated mids, “Chimey” for sparkling highs, “Honky” for that nasal midrange, “Flubby” for low-end fartiness. “Digital” just joined the weird lexicon of tone-speak.

Let’s not pretend the Axe-Fx III is perfect. it’s pretty dang close to it, but 1:1. Even Cliff knows it, hence the constant stream of firmware updates, many of which exist because of users on this forum pointing things out. We’re basically part of a massive, unpaid R&D team. It’s kind of the deal: buy the unit, help finish it. It’s fun.

And every time there’s a new firmware, like clockwork, here comes the chorus, “highs are silkier,” “lows thumpier,” “mids more organic,” “amp feel is more alive,” etc. I think at this point we’ve collectively written a million variations of the same post. Meanwhile, if someone dares to point out that something sounds off, the hive swarms in to tell them they’re nuts, their ears are broken, or they just “need to reset the block.”

But funny how often those “crazy” posts end up being right in a lot of cases. Remember the guy who noticed the Triode Plate Frequency was off on the Mark IV model? Last week maybe? He got dogpiled, then a few pages later, oh look, Cliff drops in to basically say, “Yeah, good catch.”

So yeah, it can sound digital sometimes. It’s not heresy to say that. It’s part of the process. We’re not just end-users, we’re the beta testers, too.
 
I totally understand what someone means when they say something sounds digital. They mean it sounds fatiguing; often there is something about the mid and high frequencies that is distracting or even painful to listen to.
But the thing is, you really don't know.

You know what your interpretation of that phrase means. And probably you know what aliasing sounds like, too.

When someone says it, you might even automatically think that is what they are referring to. Until you actually hear it yourself you won't really know...

But "it sounds digital" is so overused, and often for things that have nothing to do with being digital or not.
 
But the thing is, you really don't know.

You know what your interpretation of that phrase means. And probably you know what aliasing sounds like, too.

When someone says it, you might even automatically think that is what they are referring to. Until you actually hear it yourself you won't really know...

that's true for all made up sounds that define, refer to or describe things in the real world, aka words.

From 'digital' midrange in the Axe FX to radical constructivism in only 7 pages.
 
“Sounds digital” is a meaningless term. But that’s only one corner of the problem. Most people don’t have the right words to describe what they’re hearing. They’ll use “buzz,” “hum,” “noise,” "static" and “hiss” as if they all meant the same thing.

When someone posts to complain that they hear hiss or a “digital sound,” the first thing you have to do is to find out what they’re really hearing. Gently, because no one is born knowing this stuff. But you have to inform them before you can help them.
 
Last edited:
“Sounds digital” is a meaningless term. But that’s only one corner of the problem. Most people don’t have the right words to describe what they’re hearing. They’ll use “buzz,” “hum,” “noise,” and “hiss” as if they all meant the same thing.

When someone posts to complain that they hear hiss or a “digital sound,” the first thing you have to do is to find out what they’re really hearing. Gently, because no one is born knowing this stuff. But you have to inform them before you can help them.
true I remember years ago someone was asking for you know those "haunting mids" it kind of became a running joke , because really what is that ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rex
true I remember years ago someone was asking for you know those "haunting mids" it kind of became a running joke , because really what is that ?
Ooh, don’t get me started. Pickup manufacturers play this game all the time with the descriptions of their pickups.

Hmmm... do I want the pickups with the “soaring highs” or the ones with the “expressive highs?" There's no way to choose, because there's no way to know what those terms mean.
 
Last edited:
Ooh, don’t get me started. Pickup manufacturers play this game all the time with the descriptions of their pickups.

Hmmm... do I want the pickups with the “soaring highs” or the ones with the “expressive highs?" There's now way to choose, because there's no way to know what those terms mean.

GLASSY LEADS
 
Ooh, don’t get me started. Pickup manufacturers play this game all the time with the descriptions of their pickups.

Hmmm... do I want the pickups with the “soaring highs” or the ones with the “expressive highs?" There's now way to choose, because there's no way to know what those terms mean.
Just listen to Terry Bozzio in Jeff Beck's tune Guitar Shop!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom