Dialing in “your” unique sound?

[anttofm]

Hey all. I’m Jared, from the beautiful city of Chicago. This is my first post here, because I’m considering jumping into the digital world. I’m still trying to convince myself of the last 10% in my head before pulling the trigger on an FM9, and I’m dealing with my purely emotional attachment to the “tradition” (or whatever you call it) of plugging in to a traditional tube amp and stomping on little circuit boxes. I’m asking this question in hopes it might reveal whether I can soothe a few lingering thoughts still holding me back.

This is perhaps a bit of an existential one, but I wanted to ask if you feel like you’ve been able to find “your” sound using just a Fractal rig. I ask because these devices are built to recreate iconic sounds (and do it impressively well) but a lot of my favorite players in the indie realm, who have very distinct sounds live, still haven’t moved over to them. I’m thinking the Mac Demarco, Alec O’Handley, Steve Sladkowski, etc. A lot of them are still using tube amps and pedalboards with great sounds and they have their own “flavor,” if you will. Obviously there are a lot of options and tweaking made possible with Fractal, but is generating a unique tone from scratch really all that hard with a palette of modeled classic sounds?

My follow up question is about dynamics. I saw Destroyer live tonight and the guitar player’s dynamics were so sweet and pure, like the guitar was talking and whispering in some parts. Is that kind of subtlety possible on an FM9 rig? That sort of “raw” feeling where you can seemingly hear people’s fingerprints on the strings?

Thanks all. One of these units is the most logical, rational, and—despite initial costs—economical choice for me, but I don’t know anyone in town playing one and I didn’t like the Helix Stomp I tried last year, so I’m still hung up on a couple things. I welcome a push over the “buy it” line and any examples or references you might be able to share.

Cheers!

Hey, man! I live near Peoria, so shoutout from the other side of the state.

I pulled the trigger on an FM9 back in 2022, despite only having been playing guitar for about a year at that point. I used to tone-chase a lot because I didn't think I'd be able to find my own unique sound for a long while. I mostly stuck to using Bogner and other Marshall-styled tones because that's what my guitar idol used. I experimented with Recto and other Plexi-styled tones until a recommendation of some of the lesser-known amp models like Splawn, Cameron, and ultimately the FAS models. It's really easy to dial in a unique sounding tone and the array of options to do so can honestly be overwhelming at first, but I don't regret this purchase whatsoever because it's been the smartest purchase I've ever made in my journey.

The tone sculpting is so in-depth I legitimately don't think I'll need to purchase another piece of modeling technology until Fractal outdoes the FM9 haha. It really is future-proof. Take it from the people who still swear by the Axe FXII+ to this day

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I have run some presets on FM9 that use less CPU than they do on the Axe Fx III.

Yeah, I’ve seen that.

I haven’t looked into it closely but I know there was a possibility of Edit modifying the preset when I saw it, and it possibly dropped blocks during the import which would also have a big effect on the CPU. And there’s the difference in cores, and also how the CPU use is counted for the cores. Ah, mysteries of the machines.

 

[Parkinthepark]

The Fractal products will let you get as freaky as you want in terms of new-to-the-world sounds, if that's what you're after.

But if your concern is more "will a product like this just make me sound like everybody else", the answer is a resounding "no". Your sound sits at the intersection of your instrument(s), your hands, and your amps/effects. The Fractal will do the amps/effects part, but isn't so domineering that it's going to obscure the impact of the other two.

When you dial up an amp in the Fractal, you're not getting the version of that amp that's already been tuned/optimized for a particular genre. I.e. a 5150 sounds like a 5150... it's not just a stand-in for "djent amp". Each amp model contains the breadth of sounds that the IRL amp can provide, so you can make it sound as generic or distinct as you want.

 

[Budda]

The other thing is the noise floor of a fractal unit is nearly zero. Any real amp, even without pedals, will not operate as quietly. It’s worth noting for any home use.

 

[Churchhill]

Hey all. I’m Jared, from the beautiful city of Chicago. This is my first post here, because I’m considering jumping into the digital world. I’m still trying to convince myself of the last 10% in my head before pulling the trigger on an FM9, and I’m dealing with my purely emotional attachment to the “tradition” (or whatever you call it) of plugging in to a traditional tube amp and stomping on little circuit boxes.

About the only thing I can add here is that I know exactly how you feel. That was my biggest hold-up before I got my AxeFX about 3.5 years ago now. I've been playing for most of my life and have amassed a decent collection of tube amps. They're what I grew up on. Plugging into a raging stack is a life-changing experience. On top of that, every digital amp I'd ever tried before Fractal, going all the way back to Boss/Roland COSM and the original L6 Pod, no matter how good they sounded in a demo or at somebody else's show, they all just left me flat, didn't feel right, didn't sound right and usually sounded downright awful. (Again, this is just my experience and modelling has come a LONG way since then.)

At some point, maybe about 5 years ago, I'd heard enough about Fractal that I started lurking here. At some point, I'd heard enough demos and read enough that I thought, maybe, just maybe, it might be worth trying. I was amazed when I first plugged in. The sound was there, more importantly, the feeling was there, the response was there, and this was just through headphones (first time). Things got even better when I plugged it into some studio monitors and then a couple of 4x12s.

None of this means that I've sold any of my tube amps. Don't have any plans to do so and probably never will. Still play them, too, and still love them as much. But... now I have another weapon in my arsenal, and it's such an amazing source of inspiration. I can try new amps that I'll likely never see in person, let alone have a chance to play through. I have almost every effect I could want. I can tweak any of those amps in ways that would produce fire or death in real life. If I screw up, I can reset and start over. I can do all this quietly or I can do it through a wall of 4x12s. And, as so many have said before, the AxeFX responds and feels just like the real amps that I own and have no reason to believe that it does anything other with the ones I don't.

Bottom line, I was one of the biggest doubters out there. I'm still emotionally attached to the tradition because that's part of who I am and always will be. I love the history, too, and knowing where all this stuff came from. But nothing about Fractal says I have to give any of that up. Now, I'm attached to my Fractal, too, because I know every time I plug it, I'll find something new that will inspire me. It's earned its place in my toybox.

 

[j_holt]

Bottom line, I was one of the biggest doubters out there. I'm still emotionally attached to the tradition because that's part of who I am and always will be. I love the history, too, and knowing where all this stuff came from. But nothing about Fractal says I have to give any of that up. Now, I'm attached to my Fractal, too, because I know every time I plug it, I'll find something new that will inspire me. It's earned its place in my toybox.

It sounds like you’ve been in my spot before. I tried a Helix stomp and was just not into it. Maybe I didn’t give it enough time to learn it properly but I was not satisfied with it. I’m hoping that doesn’t end up the case with Fractal but everything I’ve read suggests the tech on these things is the “Porsche vs Honda” kind of thing; both can get you there but one is clearly more advanced. I also listened to someone demoing their preset packs across some devices and between presets on Helix and Fractal it was like someone let the sound out from under a blanket. That makes me optimistic.

I think your comments and the rest of the kind and helpful experiences that people shared here have got me close enough to the line that I’m going to give it an earnest try. It also helped that I added up all the pedals I though about toying with at some point in the last year (envelope filters, different flavors of overdrive, compressors, etc) and figured that even if I kept a few favorites in a loop on the FM9 I would still be making a wiser financial decision in the long haul! I think part of this journey is admitting I’m a total gear nerd who isn’t dead set on one sound and that this is going to hopefully serve as a long term GAS treatment haha.

 

[Dave Merrill]

It's done that for me

 

[Churchhill]

@j_holt - Yeah, sounds like we're coming from similar places. There may have been a few that I didn't give a lot of time to. I can usually tell within 5 minutes or so if I'm going to gel with something or not. But, there have been more than I few that I spent a lot of time with, too. My old Pod made a great hotel practice tool. In that respect, it served it's purpose well. But I never got a sound I truly felt connected with. OTOH, first time I played through a Boogie Mark III, several hours went by in about 5 minutes. That happened with my AxeFX III, too. Not saying there aren't other modelers that are pretty advanced, and they may do that thing for other people, but nothing else has done that for me.

I love to tweak, too, and Fractal's great for that, but it's also great at not having to tweak more than (maybe) the tone controls and volume. The presets are a great place to start, but so is just starting with an amp block and a cab block. And the effects... everything I'll ever need. In my case, it hasn't cured my GAS, but it definitely keeps it at bay.

One thing I've learned here is that there are always a number of people here willing to answer any question, and there are some real experts here, too. I wasn't even going to join the forum (swore forum membership off about 15 years ago), but the community here is great and I've learned so many things!

Good luck on your journey! Let us know how it goes!!

Edit: added Boogie [Mark III] for clarity

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I've been getting "my" sound since 2013 with the Axe Fx II.

The great thing about the Fractal stuff is that it can allow you to get your sound (or your heroes' sounds) and even allows you to let your sound change with your whims and all you have to do is change some settings!

I found my sound probably 20 times.

Apparently I have multiple sound disorder....

Seriously, amps that I have never seen IRL (and could never afford) are all in the box. Pedals, too. Stacking a GriddleCake and a Klone, both set just a little dirty, is a lot of fun

No more tearing pedal boards apart to put your phaser before your drive, or using a Tube Screamer instead of a DS-1.

Yeah, all done by dragging blocks around and patching virtual cables. Lots of cool toys in the box....

 

[Dave Merrill]

^^^ This, totally.

 

[Nimbas]

Well folks, tonight I played a gig out at a small club through a 68' Fender Reverb Deluxe reissue on the backline. It sounded absolutely awesome. Just a roaring wall of sound. When I was driving home I realized that I love that amp, but that if I got one the chances I'd have to turn it up like that would be relatively rare (a few times a month). I think the idea of having access to a thick sound like that at a reasonable level has got me pretty close to the finish line, though it'll be hard to say goodbye to my pedalboard piece by piece. It is insane to me that the tech in Fractal land is so good that this is even an apples-to-digital apples decision for me.

I'm always tempted to sell one thing to get the other as well, but honestly if you have a nice board put together you've sorted out for years I'd hang onto it. You will always have opportunities to approach an amp and plug in and there will always be nothing like it. Even if you can perfectly replicate your pedalboard in the front of an amp setup on say the FM9 - it's nice to have a backup.

For me it comes down to this. I do 99% of my playing at home, in my studio, at my desk through studio monitors with my FM9. When I used to play out for 10 years or so I'd always take my digital modeler (whatever it was) and go direct to the PA with in ear monitors. So far all bases covered - easy to setup and tear down - nice rig.

Where you fall short is what happens when your buddies call up and say hey come over and jam (with no PA)? You still need something to take with you. Sure you can do the whole FRFR thing - but I've always been very dissatisfied with that outside playing with my studio monitors or in ear monitors. I do like the new Fender FR-12 better than anything else I've heard so far. So that or small venues are cases where it's nice to still have a pedalboard and amp setup if you can.

If not - you can always just sell everything - buy your FM9 - then buy a Boss Katana for those situations. I live in Nashville and I can't tell you how many times I've seen people playing downtown with those things and sounding great. I understand it do - who wants to haul a 3k amp to a bar and get food and beer spilled over it. If your Katana gets trashed - you can just throw it in the garbage on the way out and get a new one for $150 LOL.

All kidding aside though no matter how good my modeler is - I still love having at least one nice amp around.

 

[j_holt]

I'm always tempted to sell one thing to get the other as well, but honestly if you have a nice board put together you've sorted out for years I'd hang onto it. You will always have opportunities to approach an amp and plug in and there will always be nothing like it. Even if you can perfectly replicate your pedalboard in the front of an amp setup on say the FM9 - it's nice to have a backup.

For me it comes down to this. I do 99% of my playing at home, in my studio, at my desk through studio monitors with my FM9. When I used to play out for 10 years or so I'd always take my digital modeler (whatever it was) and go direct to the PA with in ear monitors. So far all bases covered - easy to setup and tear down - nice rig.

Where you fall short is what happens when your buddies call up and say hey come over and jam (with no PA)? You still need something to take with you. Sure you can do the whole FRFR thing - but I've always been very dissatisfied with that outside playing with my studio monitors or in ear monitors. I do like the new Fender FR-12 better than anything else I've heard so far. So that or small venues are cases where it's nice to still have a pedalboard and amp setup if you can.

If not - you can always just sell everything - buy your FM9 - then buy a Boss Katana for those situations. I live in Nashville and I can't tell you how many times I've seen people playing downtown with those things and sounding great. I understand it do - who wants to haul a 3k amp to a bar and get food and beer spilled over it. If your Katana gets trashed - you can just throw it in the garbage on the way out and get a new one for $150 LOL.

All kidding aside though no matter how good my modeler is - I still love having at least one nice amp around.

Thanks for those thoughts! I can definitely see wanting to hang on to things for a while and approaching something like the FM9 a little differently than a typical amp/pedal rig depending on use case.

 

[three_eyed_otter]

Thanks for those thoughts! I can definitely see wanting to hang on to things for a while and approaching something like the FM9 a little differently than a typical amp/pedal rig depending on use case.

Might want to consider addressing what you didn’t like about the stomp as a modeler…It has legit tones & despite FAS being considered superior by some, there are situations/functions/processes that are inherent to most modelers. E.g., if you’re testing a modeler out on headphones because you can & expecting it to sound like an AITR, you’re already playing for the wonkeys. Monitoring plays a major factor in modeling experiences. The list could go on & on…

Have a good one,

3EO

 

[Churchhill]

Might want to consider addressing what you didn’t like about the stomp as a modeler…It has legit tones & despite FAS being considered superior by some, there are situations/functions/processes that are inherent to most modelers. E.g., if you’re testing a modeler out on headphones because you can & expecting it to sound like an AITR, you’re already playing for the wonkeys. Monitoring plays a major factor in modeling experiences.

This is a very good point and is something that comes up on the forum quite often. Here's a reference to the Wiki that talks about this...

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cab_block#Cab-in-the-room

 

[guitarplayer1969]

Just moved over from using a Helix for over 7 years (I still have a stomp XL as a backup). The only thing the Helix has over the FM9 is the ease of use(UI) on the unit itself; The FM9-Edit is better than HX Edit for the computer editing.

As far as power, tone and flexibility, and customization, it is a whole 'nother level.

The initial learning curve, and intimidation of the sheer adjustments you can make, was a bit tough at first, but there are alot of resources online, including YT vids that help alot. Wit hthat said, without getting to deep in editing, its pretty easy to get some good sounds.

It took me about a week to understand the workflow (Mainly because I was so used to the Helix way of doing things) but after playing it a few times live and making some minor tweaks, really happy with it.

 

[digitald00m]

I just switched over from sooooo many years of just using a Rocktron Voodu Valve! Programming that thing was absolute hell. Man this thing feels like I am in a music store. I could easily hide in my little studio and play all day now.

I find with this its way easier to get your own unique sound due to the amount of amps, cabs and effects you can run!

 

[bleujazz3]

@j_holt
Hi Jared,
Your story is a familiar one (owning various amps and effects over the years, swapping out pedals for better quality if not lower cost). We all share common ground here. Myself, I've owned several 2x12s, a couple 4x12s, and many 1x12s that were plenty for modest sized venues. Just before discovering Fractal, I tried HeadRush but quickly sensed it not to be a good fit, quality, tone nor sound wise.

I had joined Fractal when the FM3 was receiving general accolades early on in its release, but once the FM9 was made public, I soon realized that this was the wave of guitar modeling that freed the guitarist from lugging a weighty rack case of AxeFxIII and foot controller, for a more compact unit with adequate processing power to compete with the flagship model.

Spurred on by joining this forum, many helpful people tactfully answered my questions, even as obtuse as they were (with clarification for good measure). I learned about the supporting G66.eu YouTube channel, John Nathan Cordy and Leon Todd's channel, as well as others who contribute to promoting G66. Many useful hours were spent viewing instructional videos. Then, Cooper Carter introduced his MasterClass series for FM9, a good day plus worth instructional videos as a paid-for view-anytime series.

It seems like almost every week or so, one of the G66 folks breaks new ground and creates several scenes within a user preset that makes me happy. You might ask why others would want such a generic tone if it's being provided freely for the public? I'd counter and ask these folks can you hear what the YT promoter hears? I daresay that both John Nathan and Leon have well-tuned ears, and what you're hearing is some of the best Fractal can offer.

Granted, if may not be of the same type of music you prefer, but you have to ask yourself, what outboard effects that the FM9 doesn't contain are being used with your favorite players? There are a lot of unique effects IRL that might help define who you are as a player, that Fractal may never be able to get you close to accomplishing.

It may not be a question if you're ready for Fractal, but what additional effects that already help define your style are part of your existing effects board, that could be adapted to the benefits of the FM9.

Then, consider that the vast library of amps and cabs of the FM9 waiting for you to explore. You may easily discover that you have not defined your sound entirely, it's just in a state of flux until you settle on something for a while. Yep. That may be a key element.

The reason for buying an FM9 is because it opens up a new ecosystem waiting for you to explore. You'll learn slowly at first, then as you gain knowledge you'll see more clearly how and why things work well together. For those who deep dive, you'll learn about what certain amp parameters do what to your tone and sound. When you own a Fractal unit, don't expect this to be a simple plug 'n play thing. It'll take a while to come up to speed with these devices, and how your ears are vitally important in discerning small differences that may make or break the gig.

The best thing about this is that Fractal keeps upgrading their firmware and introducing something new as part of consumer feedback. The reason Fractal has a loyal group of followers is because their customer service is top-notch and they listen to their customer's needs. Without denigrating the competition, I simply suggest Fractal does what it does well and keeps improving their product and supporting the existing customer base by providing free firmware upgrades.

You can choose for yourself. I think if you do select an FM9T, you'll be pleased. Once you've viewed some getting started videos and created several reliable user presets, you'll wonder why did I wait to purchase an FM9? Best wishes.

 

[dsouza]

Let's not forget with pedal boards sometimes you got to find a faulty SMALL cable that is making your rig unoperative. In small pedalboards this is easy , but get as complex as the FM9 can with pedals and you have your work cut out for you.

On the FM9 you have a nice video display you can see if a cable is missing. Like @unix-guy said you can also play with the order of pedals without going crazy with adjusting cable connections.

For those that are concerned the FM9 is too complex I urge you to try out all of the factory presets that come included. The helix doesn't sound good out of the box but the FM9 does. I have used some of these stock factory presets on my albums with minimal change.

Instead of starting from scratch you can always build on a factory preset and adjust it to your liking. Most sound damn good on their own. The fractal world is also full of support. Lots of custom preset makers making preset packs for those who are looking for very specific bands/sounds.

I came from the Helix world. When I couldn't backup my HX Effects to my new pc laptop they told me to buy a new computer. I told them I shouldn't have to do all that and it should work on my new pc. I tried to return it telling them w/o being able to backup the system is useless to me. They wouldn't do anything , no refund no return. Here at fractal they want to resolve your problems and see you happy. The customer service here is unmatched. I get all my questions answered promptly and the fractal team as well as the users genuinely care about other people fixing their issues.

Come join the Fractal world. And never look back at pedalboards and tube amps again! And if you REALLY want to use a tube amp you still can with the FAS systems although it's not the optimal choice to get maximal effect. Changing tubes on real tube amps? Those days are gone for me. I can change my tubes on the FM9 amp models to whatever I want whenever I want without any fuss.