Dealing with unbalanced stereo "issue"

Orion86

Orion86

Member
So, for the first time I had noticed an imbalance between the left and right output in my cubase project. I noticed that my right guitar signal was louder in db when analyzed, yet sounded much quieter than the left guitar that is significantly less in db when analyzed. It has driven crazy for the last couple days. Is it in my head? Has it always been this way but I never noticed? Have all my mixes been unbalanced like this? Well...

Then I found this in the Wiki:

Left / right output level differences

There may be differences between the left and right output level when running stereo.
Cliff: "It's inevitable that there will be mismatch in the L/R levels. The output levels are controlled by a stereo potentiometer. The tracking between the two resistors will never be perfect and gets worse as you get near the start of the curve (fully CCW). It's impossible to fix in software as the mismatch will vary from unit to unit. Also, you can't simply put a global balance control because the mismatch varies with the level knob position. The good news is this is one reason why they put faders on mixing boards. I'd hardly consider it a problem or a flaw. Simply compensate as necessary."

How the heck am I suppose to accurately compensate for this within cubase/axe fx II??
 
I have a very old version of Cubase (10+ years). I'd mix that track down and use Wavelab's global analysis on the track to get the loudness and look at the average RMS power of the track for the left and right side in dB. From that, I'd compute the difference between each side in dB, then I'd put a "Leveler" effect in the effects rack in Wavelab and raise the lower side by the difference. Once I was satisfied, I'd render it, normalize it, and import it into Cubase. Or you could take the difference you calculated in Wavelab and insert a "Leveler" in insert effects for the track in Cubase and enter the adjustment there.

That's how I'd do it. There's probably a slicker and more easy way to do it now.

They use to have a really cool balance scope in Native tools that you could look at and adjust it real time.
 
Orion86 said:
So, for the first time I had noticed an imbalance between the left and right output in my cubase project. I noticed that my right guitar signal was louder in db when analyzed, yet sounded much quieter than the left guitar that is significantly less in db when analyzed. It has driven crazy for the last couple days. Is it in my head? Has it always been this way but I never noticed? Have all my mixes been unbalanced like this? Well...
Click to expand...
There's two possible reasons for this:
The signals are very different in tone and EQ. A heavily mid-scooped sound will always sound a lot quieter to your ears than a mid-boosted sound, even at the same sound pressure. Use your ears for mixing, not your eyes! Also, make sure to use a highpass filter on your guitar signals to filter out useless low-end energy that does not contribute anything to your sound.

Second possibility:
One of your ears might be damaged. Do you always produce with headphones or with monitors? You should possibly check if your listening on both sides is equal...

Then I found this in the Wiki:

Left / right output level differences

There may be differences between the left and right output level when running stereo.
Cliff: "It's inevitable that there will be mismatch in the L/R levels. The output levels are controlled by a stereo potentiometer. The tracking between the two resistors will never be perfect and gets worse as you get near the start of the curve (fully CCW). It's impossible to fix in software as the mismatch will vary from unit to unit. Also, you can't simply put a global balance control because the mismatch varies with the level knob position. The good news is this is one reason why they put faders on mixing boards. I'd hardly consider it a problem or a flaw. Simply compensate as necessary."

How the heck am I suppose to accurately compensate for this within cubase/axe fx II??
Click to expand...
This only applies to the actual volume and does not affect the waveform. Any kind of normalizing will automaticly get rid of this.
Also, the difference is extremely minor, I doubt it does make a dramatic difference.
 
Thanks for the responses. My hearing is good, if anything my left is worse than the right, but this is definitely not the cause. It is through both the monitors and headphones, and doing the "flip" does exactly what is expected... flipping the imbalance.

I understand it only affects the perceived volume of the panned guitars and doesn't actually affect the physical nature of the waveform, so "normalizing" isn't the solution. My concern, mostly, is if I compensate for this, will it be heard in the final mix as well. I can live with it if it is just a DAW/technical issue, but I don't want to adjust the right side to match the perceived volume of the left just to find that my final mix has the right louder than the left. I hope that's easy to read, lol.

Point being made: I can deal with it in the project, but I just want to be sure it wont be audible when mixed down and played on an external system(car stereo, etc.)
 
And I understand the tendency to place this on my hearing and what not, but Cliff states very clearly in the quote that this IS an existing "issue." So, him confirming it is step one. Step two is learning how to compensate or understand that it's something that can't be fixed and just go with the db levels of both panned guitars to be sure that they will be even in the mix... OR level by ear so that the mixed song will be even.

Basically, I really just need to know if what I'm hearing is what will be bounced, or if what I'm seeing(db levels) is what will be bounced. and I've officially overthought this and typed too much... lol, thanks guys. Moving on... ;)
 
That quote was referring to the 1st generation Axe-FX. I'm not sure if the II tends to have much of a L/R imbalance at lower levels.

How are you recording the Axe-FX? (Analog to another interface, SPDIF, USB?) Are your monitors & headphones connected to the Axe-FX? Are those two guitar tracks you mentioned different tones?

The way to adjust for this would be to make sure a centered track sounds centered (i.e. equal level in L & R speakers) to you, if not taking more precise measurements of each speaker's output level. If your monitors have input level controls you could adjust there. You could also use the master output balance control of your DAW software. If you use the DAW balance, center it when rendering. That off-center setting would only be for equal L/R levels on your speakers when mixing.
 
First, swap the Axe's left and right outputs. If the imbalance flips backwards, the imbalance is in the Axe. If it stays the same, the problem is in the DAW.

If the imbalance is in the Axe, and one side measures hotter but sounds quieter, I bet that channel has a cleaner tone.

Finally, balance is for your ears, not for meters. :)
 
Last edited:
Orion86 said:
My concern, mostly, is if I compensate for this, will it be heard in the final mix as well. I can live with it if it is just a DAW/technical issue, but I don't want to adjust the right side to match the perceived volume of the left just to find that my final mix has the right louder than the left. I hope that's easy to read, lol.

Point being made: I can deal with it in the project, but I just want to be sure it wont be audible when mixed down and played on an external system(car stereo, etc.)
Click to expand...
Listen to the track on both good studio monitors and headphones. Does it sound "balanced" to you? If yes, everything's fine! You shouldn't care about the waveform and instead use your ears.
Also, you might want to check the balance every time you apply effects to the track that change the dynamics (compression, limiter).
 
The volume pot things usually affect only the very first part of the adjustemnt range, crank it up and i will even out. Or record digitally.
 
This is kind of an outside the box solution - not sure if it will work as you desire. I use Waves Vocal Rider plugin (sometimes to the point of abuse) to level match signals. I think the native version is sometimes on sale for $150. Perhaps, you could side chain your louder signal to automatically ride the lower one up. If it didn't work, I think you'd still find the plug-in to be useful for other purposes so, not a waste of money.
 
I am having a similar problem when I use the unbalanced output on my Ultra into my studio monitors . Only one of the monitors is producing sound and I have tried to flip the cables which flips the monitor producing the sound.

Has anyone found a solution yet ?
 
Star^Rock said:
I am having a similar problem when I use the unbalanced output on my Ultra into my studio monitors . Only one of the monitors is producing sound and I have tried to flip the cables which flips the monitor producing the sound.
Click to expand...
Bad cable? Take the cable/monitor combination that produces sound, and try each Axe output (you're using left and right...right?). Do both outputs produce sound?
 
Last edited:
I tried by connecting only one of the cables first in Axe Output L and into the L of my monitors , then Output L into R of the monitors and so on with all 4 permutations . It turns out there is sound coming from the Output L, but it is almost a magnitude less than that of the Output R i.e. almost 10% . I increased the Ultra's output to 100 %, but still the sound coming out from L is nowhere close to that from R ( in terms of magnitude, frequencies sound similar to R)

I think this might be a hardware problem, as I tried to play with the Output settings -> Chorus -> Copy L-R and so on without any difference.

Is there any way out of this ? Is this fixable ? Or can I use one of the other kinds of Outputs on the Ultra to get the full sound ? Am I really missing any sound if I record ?
 
Does this happen with all presets? Does it happen with factory presets?
 
I am happy to report that the problem went away on its own . I suspect it was because the output level was too low, as I was testing and playing usually in the night. On the weekend, after cranking up the input and output levels mid-way, both monitors were producing sound. Hope that is the end of it !
 
Star^Rock said:
I am happy to report that the problem went away on its own . I suspect it was because the output level was too low, as I was testing and playing usually in the night. On the weekend, after cranking up the input and output levels mid-way, both monitors were producing sound. Hope that is the end of it !
Click to expand...
Ah, there's the problem. It's pretty much impossible to manufacture a dual pot that stays balanced at the extreme low end of its range. Turn up just a little bit: problem solved. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom