Custom IR blends that also bake in external plugin EQ?

T

Tiger1016

Inspired
Are there ways to create custom IR files that not only blend a handful of IRs together but also baking in external VST plugin EQ and compressor work, all into one single IR that can be loaded into the Axe Fx. I have not actually worked with these kinds of external tools yet, so I am outside of my paygrade and looking for a little guidance from those in the know.

For the sake of discussion, I’ll refer to the use of FabFilter product offerings (EQ = Pro Q 3 / compressor = Pro MB). And let’s say that I wanted to blend 3 different IRs together along with the manual EQ and compressor settings that I work up. And I then want to save this all down to a simple IR that I am able to use in the Axe to have access to this “perfect” tone at all times, without my computer.

Is this practically possible? I am not looking for a detailed step by step, but I would at least like to know what the high level logistics of this would look like? Are there certain software options that I should look into for doing something like this? I am only messing with guitar tones, am not doing anything professional at the moment, and would like to minimize cost while keeping things as easy to use as possible.

(edit: to remove the compressor piece from the question since that will not be technically possible)
 
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FractalAudio said:
IRs are static and therefore cannot replicate the behavior of dynamic devices like compressors. You can "bake in" any linear, time-invariant system, i.e. EQ.
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Ahh I see. Thanks for the quick input. So this takes the compressor piece out of the original question, which was the relatively less important part of what I was looking for.

Am now just trying to figure out a good way to bake in external EQ into a blended IR in a somewhat comprehensive and real time work flow. Have not come across an option that jumps out me yet on being able to do this.
 
You can make a tone match of the EQ and save it as an IR. Your reference signal is with the EQ and your source is without.
 
mr_fender said:
You can make a tone match of the EQ and save it as an IR. Your reference signal is with the EQ and your source is without.
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You are correct. This would be a way to pull this off. However, I think I might rather avoid this approach all together if this was the only way I could pull off what I was hoping for. The issue being the need to have the original IR and EQ being merged into a single blended IR. So using the tone match approach would theoretically work to do the blender IR thing that I am looking for, but I worry about the potential trade off in the resulting sound quality.

I would compare this to the analogy of taking two compressed mp3s, mixing them together in software, running an output to an external console, and then recording the mix that way. Not a perfect analogy, but the point being this approach seems like it would loose the ability to faithfully retain the detail and fidelity that exist in the digital creation realm. Maybe it is not as detrimental as I am assuming though, and I'll admit that I have not done much exploring with tone matching.
 
So I stumbled across this youtube how to video for using the convolution tool in Reaper's ReaVerb. It walks through a process for creating custom reverbs, along with adding dynamic EQs, which can then be saved and exported into an IR that looks like it should be usable in the Axe. Seems like I could do something similar using a guitar cab IR, most likely getting my IRs using Mikko, and then just need to pick which EQ plugin to go with.

Can anyone confirm or deny if this should be a workable solution for what I am trying to do here?

 
Tiger1016 said:
You are correct. This would be a way to pull this off. However, I think I might rather avoid this approach all together if this was the only way I could pull off what I was hoping for. The issue being the need to have the original IR and EQ being merged into a single blended IR. So using the tone match approach would theoretically work to do the blender IR thing that I am looking for, but I worry about the potential trade off in the resulting sound quality.

I would compare this to the analogy of taking two compressed mp3s, mixing them together in software, running an output to an external console, and then recording the mix that way. Not a perfect analogy, but the point being this approach seems like it would loose the ability to faithfully retain the detail and fidelity that exist in the digital creation realm. Maybe it is not as detrimental as I am assuming though, and I'll admit that I have not done much exploring with tone matching.
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If you have the original IR in WAV format, you can import it into your DAW, add said EQ, then export it.
 
As Cliff said, compression cannot be captured or recreated with a static IR, so neither tonematching nor Reaper's tools will accomplish that.

If you use a tone match to create a user cab IR of the EQ, you can use the IR player block to add it after the cab block. IR's are basically just linear EQ, so combining them results in no loss of quality. You're just adding more or less filtering at specific frequencies.

You can use Reaper's tools to create an aggregate IR of the EQ and Cabs. You'd generate a test tones wave file using the plug-in, then process that wave file with the EQ and cab mix using other plugins and then deconvolve the resulting processed file to get the combined wave IR. You should then be able to import that as a user cab and use it in the cab block.
 
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mr_fender said:
As Cliff said, compression cannot be captured or recreated with a static IR, so neither tonematching nor Reaper's tools will accomplish that.

If you use a tone match to create a user cab IR of the EQ, you can use the IR player block to add it after the cab block. IR's are basically just linear EQ, so combining them results in no loss of quality. You're just adding more or less filtering at specific frequencies.

You can use Reaper's tools to create an aggregate IR of the EQ and Cabs. You'd generate a test tones wave file using the plug-in, then process that wave file with the EQ and cab mix using other plugins and then deconvolve the resulting processed file to get the combined wave IR. You should then be able to import that as a user cab and use it in the cab block.
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Got it. Very helpful! Thanks a ton for the input. I have all of the knowledge I need now and can call this case closed.

BTW, I had somehow been living under a rock and had been ignoring the existence of the IR Play block. This will wind up coming in handy because I am going to try using it a different need that has some relatability. I frequently use a pair of Audeze headphones, and Audeze has a free headphone EQ correction tool, Reveal+, which is comparable to something like Sonarworks, which applies a set corrective EQ curve that normalized the headphones to a flat reference curve for the purposes of creating more accurate mixes, or Axe Fx presets. With the Tone Match approach already discussed here, I'll be able to create an IR of this curve and have it on the grid permanently before Output 1, which I use exclusively for headphones. And now I have some GAS for a room correction option to do the same thing for my CLRs that I use like studio monitors in my untreated room.
 
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