cure for drummers with IEM's?

warlockII

warlockII

Fractal Fanatic
I know the title is a little weird and possibly demeaning. MY experience has been that when drummers switch to IEM's they start playing louder. Notice I said MY experience, I'm not making a blanket statement. Are there ways to alleviate the issue or to help them to get back to their "normal" volume? We like to keep our stage volume down, so we can keep the PA at a "low dB" setting, but this is really dependent on how hard a drummer plays. Our current drummer realized the difference as quickly as he pulled out his IEM's. He's gone back to a monitor, but I think his ability to hear parts and our overall sound would benefit from all of us using IEM's. Feedback and ideas?
 
No gates on the drummer's feeds and balance the kick and the overheads.
If the drummer is not skilled mixing wise, another thing could be to do the eq and balance for them and then they will ask you to do small tweaks.
 
Whether the drummer uses headphones or IEM's, the mix is critical for them. They no longer hear the kit, but hear the mix. S small submixer might help. Pan the submixer the same way the kit sounds (left to right) so it sounds more "natural" to the drummer. It does take some time to dial in a good mix so the other band members should try to be patient while the drummer gets the mix dialed in. Once the mix is dialed in, mark the stettings on the submixer so that you can get it dialed in quickly from that point on.
 
Put him behind a blast shield to control the volume & clean up the bleed in your vocal mics. It worked wonders for us & our foh tech loves us for it.
 
I worked with a drummer years ago who I'm pretty sure used a 'buttkicker'. I think he felt more low end and EIMs gave him the mix without having to crank it to 'feel' his kit. It wasn't my band so I don't remember the whole rig, but each player had a smaller mixer fed with simple submixes of other musicians.


ianx said:
Put him behind a blast shield to control the volume & clean up the bleed in your vocal mics. It worked wonders for us & our foh tech loves us for it.
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Good advice
 
The best way I've experienced is to use much smaller and thinner cymbals.

This will let you play with smaller shells.

Once the kit is smaller and still balanced between cymbals and shells; it helps tremendously.

Small shells with big cymbals still didn't work in my experience.
 
I know it's not really the most desirable for drummers but a really good electronic kit works the best at keeping stage volumes manageable.
 
It is all about volume and how hard the drummer hits the cymbals. Well, you need to hear the drum as well as the instruments. Balance is the magic pill for both parties. Experiment with different option: smaller cymbals, electronic drums, different sticks, different kit etc.
 
I don't think the solution is "gear". If the drummer plays with the correct dynamics when not using the in-ears, then the problems sits in what he hears when using them.
 
GiRa said:
I don't think the solution is "gear". If the drummer plays with the correct dynamics when not using the in-ears, then the problems sits in what he hears when using them.
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Not that I don't agree with you but it's a well known fact that "most" drummers have a hard time with dynamic playing and they for the most part given the venue will set the stage volume. It's so much easier to use an electronic kit and manage the mix volume through the monitoring system.
 
Sixstring said:
I know it's not really the most desirable for drummers but a really good electronic kit works the best at keeping stage volumes manageable.
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It is the best option for silent stages but It really takes away from the enjoyment for me to play an e-kit.

It's like asking the guitar player to play a midi controller vs. a regular guitar; not anything like playing the real instrument.
 
barhrecords said:
It is the best option for silent stages but It really takes away from the enjoyment for me to play an e-kit.

It's like asking the guitar player to play a midi controller vs. a regular guitar; not anything like playing the real instrument.
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For me it was asking me to play through a modeler instead of a real amp. Those days are long gone and yes silent stages are usually a church deal but it is really nice if you truly want to get a handle on stage volumes.

The new generation of E drums and plugin software is very convincing when it comes to both feel and sound. Infact I remember a post that cobbler did on a set of acoustic drums that he had converted over to electronic.
 
Sixstring said:
For me it was asking me to play through a modeler instead of a real amp. Those days are long gone and yes silent stages are usually a church deal but it is really nice if you truly want to get a handle on stage volumes.

The new generation of E drums and plugin software is very convincing when it comes to both feel and sound. Infact I remember a post that cobbler did on a set of acoustic drums that he had converted over to electronic.
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The modeler analogy is different. We can still play our favorite electric instruments. I haven't played every brand of e-pad but even the high end stuff from Roland and Hart isn't the same as playing a real drum head / shell.

But acoustic cymbals and drums are loud by their nature so an e-kit is nice for managing the stage sound.

I find those plexi glass shields don't cut the kit volume as much unless the drums are a fairly high riser.
 
barhrecords said:
The modeler analogy is different. We can still play our favorite electric instruments. I haven't played every brand of e-pad but even the high end stuff from Roland and Hart isn't the same as playing a real drum head / shell.

But acoustic cymbals and drums are loud by their nature so an e-kit is nice for managing the stage sound.

I find those plexi glass shields don't cut the kit volume as much unless the drums are a fairly high riser.
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Yup! used shields for a while with a few drummers and they never quite did the trick. In fact actually created other problems with the drummer not able to hear the rest of the players. Adding a monitor behind the shield just raised the volume back to where it was before the shield was added so it was kind of a pointless exercise.

Wound up getting rid of the shield and had one of the drummers using lighter sticks which worked somewhat but found him running through sticks. Finding a good drummer that knows how to control the way he hits is a tough order sometimes.
 
The problem is, for rock, there is certain impact when you strike, to get the tone.

Using jam rods, light sticks, or playing lightly doesn't really cut it for rock. It change the sound and groove.

The best I've seen is to make the kit and cymbals smaller; the drummer can play normally. It still produces stage volume but not so much that you need a Marshall stack and Ampeg 8x10 rig to keep up. Normal wedges can work.
 
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