Converting latching switch to momentary?

TubeByter

TubeByter

Member
Hi all, searched around but don't see the answer to this one... I have an Ernie Ball 6165 volume/switching pedal with the added built-in 'tap left' switch.

I modded the pedal so it's an expression-only pedal am using it successfully for amp volume via FC pedal input 1, andI have also wired the toe switch on the pedal direct to one of the 1/4" connectors on the Ernie Ball and on to Ext. Switch 1 on my FC.
My hope was to use the Ernie Ball switch as a stand-in switch for the switch on my FC that switches to solos. (that's a lot of switches in one sentence...)
Would love to be able to switch in/out of solos while keeping my foot on the amp volume pedal, saves some hopping.
Anyway- the switch on the Ernie Ball is latching and I am trying to use it to do a scene toggle... so of course I have to hit it twice to activate the scene toggle. The only other choice in FC controllers 'pedal type' is virtual toggle, which of course is the opposite, that makes a momentary into a toggle.
Is there any way to cheat to make the latching function 'switch' on either state change, as if it was a momentary?

Thanks for any help!


Lou
 
Hey I just thought of something that I'll try when I get home.. Instead of trying to use 'scene toggle' on one FC footswitch for switching in and out of solos, I will split up the scene selection... use one FC footswitch for direct selecting my 'normal' scene and another FC footswitch for direct selecting my 'solo' scene in each patch.
The Ernie Ball latching switch, luckily is double- throw.. So I'll use the other contact on that switch into FC external switch input 2. Then just assign each external switch to one of the FC scene direct selects. .. hope it works.
 
Ya may end up there.... Thinking it thru, that last idea has one fatal flaw... Every time I switch patches, if the switch on the Ernie Ball is already sitting in the state of the wrong scene, I'll have to hit it twice to get into the correct scene. Not a show stopper but annoying
So... ok you and I have both talked me into it. Tomorrow I'll investigate replacing the switch.
However, having a new choice in the setup menu for 'turn latching into momentary' i.e. 'convert any state change to momentary' would be a fabulous addition. Guess the proper place for that would be in feature requests...
 
Thanks, I found one in my junk drawer that should fit. However I would repeat that it is possible to have software turn any latching switch into momentary by detecting the transition instead of the switch state, and generating a trigger every time any state change is detected. I believe the Morningstar pedal has that feature.
 
TubeByter said:
Thanks, I found one in my junk drawer that should fit. However I would repeat that it is possible to have software turn any latching switch into momentary by detecting the transition instead of the switch state, and generating a trigger every time any state change is detected. I believe the Morningstar pedal has that feature.
Click to expand...
But the Axe does not.
 
Well I bet it could someday.... just sayin'...
Anyway turns out I don't need the soldering iron, I did connect the other pole of the latching switch to FC External switch 2, set both external sw1 and external sw2 as 'Follow Hardware/normally open-momentary make', assigned both external switches as stand-ins for my Preset toggle and it works perfectly! Yeehaw. This is a wonderful addition to my pedalboard. So I guess the answer to my question is; yes there is a workaround to make a latching switch momentary, thanks to Axe III's powerful and flexible external switch programming possibilities. Thanks Fractal!
 
It is physically impossible for a latching switch to function as a momentary switch. The switch is either open or closed. In a latching switch, the release of the button has no impact on the state of the switch. You found a workaround for selecting between two scenes, but the switch is still not functioning as a momentary switch.
 
mr_fender said:
It is physically impossible for a latching switch to function as a momentary switch. The switch is either open or closed. In a latching switch, the release of the button has no impact on the state of the switch. You found a workaround for selecting between two scenes, but the switch is still not functioning as a momentary switch.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. You're correct.
Thanks for your help.
 
TubeByter said:
Thanks, I found one in my junk drawer that should fit. However I would repeat that it is possible to have software turn any latching switch into momentary by detecting the transition instead of the switch state, and generating a trigger every time any state change is detected. I believe the Morningstar pedal has that feature.
Click to expand...

“Sometimes it’s better to put on slippers than to try to carpet the world.”
S. Smalley
 
TubeByter said:
Thanks, I found one in my junk drawer that should fit. However I would repeat that it is possible to have software turn any latching switch into momentary by detecting the transition instead of the switch state, and generating a trigger every time any state change is detected. I believe the Morningstar pedal has that feature.
Click to expand...
That is not turning the switch action to momentary.

A momentary switch changes state when you press down on it and again when you release it. What you describe does not do this.

To get the second 'trigger' from the latching switch, you would have to press the switch again....
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
That is not turning the switch action to momentary.

A momentary switch changes state when you press down on it and again when you release it. What you describe does not do this.

To get the second 'trigger' from the latching switch, you would have to press the switch again....
Click to expand...
Yes again you're correct. This method that I've discovered and that is working perfectly is best described as:

'Taking a latching switch and allowing it to SIMULATE a momentary switch's action, by having both/either state of the latching switch repeatedly trigger the same event/action in the AxeIII'.

Does that make it easier to swallow?

As you can see in the video it works perfectly.
You can call it whatever you want, we can argue over what the correct technical description is... it works. Perfectly. Watch the video.

All technically-correct discussion aside, I got the results I was hoping for. Good news for anyone who has a latching switch that they really like the feel of and would like to use. Personally I like the fact that I get a tactile 'click' when I engage the switch, provides a solid feeling response that an action has been performed. I don't know of any momentary switches with that same feel and feedback. (correct me if there are any, as I'm sure you will!)

Bottom line, either way, it does exactly what I was hoping to do and man it's great, I used it at rehearsal yesterday and I found it a huge improvement to the pedalboard. Highly recommended. Hey someone should come out with a volume/expression pedal with this side-tap feature (yes, maybe with a MOMENTARY switch to prevent all the angst and discussion). One thing the Ernie Ball has going for it of course is that it's built like a tank, the switching mechanism is very heavy duty and there is no stress on the switch itself, it will last a long long time (unlike the darn string.... hate changing those...)
BTW the switch in the Ernie Ball is a mini, so the switch recommended above although it's an excellent and robust switch ( I have several) would not mount in this particular pedal.
 
Update... Ernie Ball does have the 6168EB mono pedal with the switch wired directly to a jack on the front.. however I don't know if the switch is a DPDT like the 6165, if it's a single throw switch (open/closed) then you would not be able to use the method I discovered to SIMULATE a momentary action. If it is a double throw switch wired to a TRS jack then... Bob's your uncle.
 
TubeByter said:
Yes again you're correct. This method that I've discovered and that is working perfectly is best described as:

'Taking a latching switch and allowing it to SIMULATE a momentary switch's action, by having both/either state of the latching switch repeatedly trigger the same event/action in the AxeIII'.
Click to expand...

That still does not describe momentary action.

Momentary switches would only trigger the action for the duration of the switch being pressed, and immediately stop as soon as the switch was no longer pressed. There is no way to detect the second state change (lifting off the switch) as the switch stays latched in whichever state until pressed again.

TubeByter said:
Does that make it easier to swallow?
Click to expand...

No. There is no swallowing involved. It describes what that function does better, but does not make the latching switch act in a momentary fashion. I am happy for you that it does what you want it to do, but that is not momentary action, it is repeated triggering of something from the change in state of a latching switch. It is important to be clear with language in order not to perpetuate disinformation....
 
I think this thread has run its course.
Not really into the 'baitandbicker' thing.
I hope the information might prove useful to someone.
Moving on now!
Cheers
Lou
 
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