Compression to raise volume?

J

jayarpeggios

Member
So I am wanting to increase the volume of my signal if it goes lower than a set threshold... how do I do this? I know I can use the compression to decrease the volume if it goes to high... but..

I'm trying to do this so my gate (after the comp or whatever) doesn't close on a note I'm trying to sustain. Any help would be great thanks :)
 
javajunkie said:
Why not just lower the threshold of the noise gate?
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Because I need notes to sustain for a long time.... or when needed very short staccato like gating... the only way to achieve this (that i know of) is placing a gate first to block what you don't want in the signal. Then after it placing a compressor or something to boost the volume up if it gets to low so that 2nd gate following the compressor doesn't cut the note off. I have it working pretty well but... if i could boost the signal after the first gate then i can basically have notes that ring out as long as they would without a gate however still be very fast and tight on the rhythm.

so kinda like this

[GATE] - [COMP] - [Gate] - (then amps and whatever else is desired)

maybe ill see if i can do something with the filter block.
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding you, however, if you boos the volume to get through the gate, won't that basically do the same thing as turning the threshold down on the gate? It will raise the volume of things so they pass through the gate and you will get more sustain. The only way you are going to be able to have it sustain one note and then cut the next is to have one of the gates switchable.

Please don't take this the wrong way, it sounds like you are trying to use effects to obtain something that a little woodshedding with practicing right hand technique would get you. I am not cutting on your playing at all. I do the sticatto notes by using muting techniques with both the right and left hands.
 
A compressor will do this.... the Threshold set the level at which it starts to act... if the inout level goes Above the threshold, it brings down the level... if the input signal falls Below the threshold, it increases the level... a compressor, in effect ( no pun intended ) just levels out the dynamics of your signal... sounds like this is what you are wanting..

Just put a Compressor in your signal path, AFTER your Gate, and adjust the threshold of your gate so it only cuts out the noise... if you want it to compress more of the signal, reduce the threshold on the compressor, and it will act as if the notes are sustaining longer ( adjust the release longer to make it sustain even longer...).

Hope this helps !
 
flyingfadr said:
A compressor will do this.... the Threshold set the level at which it starts to act... if the inout level goes Above the threshold, it brings down the level... if the input signal falls Below the threshold, it increases the level... a compressor, in effect ( no pun intended ) just levels out the dynamics of your signal... sounds like this is what you are wanting..

Just put a Compressor in your signal path, AFTER your Gate, and adjust the threshold of your gate so it only cuts out the noise... if you want it to compress more of the signal, reduce the threshold on the compressor, and it will act as if the notes are sustaining longer ( adjust the release longer to make it sustain even longer...).

Hope this helps !
Click to expand...

Well you describe exactly what I am doing.. I just didn't realize a compressor brings the volume up. Makes a lot of since tho I was wondering how it was working fairly well. My patch is very unforgiving but I'm ok with that :) forces me to play better.

and at JasonE.. I really don't feel like explaining it but after I have found a good balance I couldn't see living without my patches this way. Try it yourself I'm sure it will make more since when you mess with it. I'll post again If I find a better way.
 
Another option to try, if you are using high gain patches, is to put the gate right after the amp and speaker blocks, then in to the compressor... that way, you can gate out just the noise from the amp, before you get to the compressor.... don't know why you would want to put another gate after the compressor, as the release control on the compressor sets how quickly or slowly the compressor lets go of the signal....

[amp] -->[cab]-->[gate]-->[compressor]--> and whatever FX you want after...

Hope this helps.
 
I currently have my gate set at the end of the signal path after all the effects. The effects like reverb would hold the gate open longer wouldnt it. I wonder if having a gate after the amp then one at the end of the chain would make it more effective.
 
I don't think you would need the gate at the end of the chain... if you put the gate after the cab, you should be setting the gate at the noise floor, so it should all be getting gated out of the signal before it even hits the FX, and the FX themselves shouldn't be adding any additional noise...
By putting the gate AFTER the FX, you might be opening yourself to all sorts of weird gating issues ( ie, the gate trying to open and close spastically as it detects trailing reverb or delay repeats...)

Whatever works for you will be right, but you might be fighting more than you need to, if you put the gate at the end of the chain..
 
jayarpeggios said:
flyingfadr said:
A compressor will do this.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Exactly! Flying fader nailed it. Just turn your thinking inside out... If the compressor decreases levels over the threshold, an overall gain increase effectively results in the quieter sections -- those below the threshold--seeming to increase in volume in comparison to their unprocessed levels when the action of the compressor diminishes as the signal falls below the threshold. Consider using "softest" knee setting.

To experiment, get the input signal above the threshold and adjust the output level so the volume sounds the same when the compressor is engaged or bypassed. Then let a note tail ring while you switch the compressor in and out. --__--__--__

PS: Thus the old name "Compression Sustainer"
 
I remember why i put the gate at the end of the chain and their is a reason for doing something like this. If you have some delays or long tailed reverbs in your patch you can put a gate at the end and make the reverb end prematurely, while presurving the long reverb tail durring the riff your playing. So if i want to do a really fast palm mute or choke a chord quickly the reverb not run on so when i stop the sound.

I just put a gate after my amp model today cause my previous gate at the end didnt always effectively stop feedback and this dual gate with one after the amp and one to shorten the reverb seems to work well for my patch.
 
Cool... you could also try a "Gated Reverb" setting on the reverb... might do the same thing as what I think you are describing, and would do it more consistently.

Edit: Oops... just looked in the manual.... there is no gated reverb algorithm in the Axe FX.... thought for sure there would be.. it's a pretty standard reverb...
 
flyingfadr said:
Cool... you could also try a "Gated Reverb" setting on the reverb... might do the same thing as what I think you are describing, and would do it more consistently.

Edit: Oops... just looked in the manual.... there is no gated reverb algorithm in the Axe FX.... thought for sure there would be.. it's a pretty standard reverb...
Click to expand...

You can do that by attaching a modifier with the envelope as source to the mix of the reverb or if you run the reverb in parallel attach the modifier to the level.
 
What you're wanting to do is essentially "upward compression" Instead of the compression clamping down on the loud parts, you want to raise the volume of the softer parts.

Running a properly set compressor that crushes everything except the notes you want to keep clean(fast attack, high ratio and slower release) and then having this compressed signal run in parallel to the dry guitar signal should do the trick. The uncompressed dry signal will give you all of your loud notes (while the compressor totally clamps down on these in the processed chain) and then as you sustain, the compressed side should slowly release and your quiet notes will hold steady, bringing their apparent relative volume up.

You may have to mess with the mix of dry vs compressed signal.

row 1 -------dry---------\
row 2-------compressor-----*combine both signals*--gate---->rest of signal chain----->
 
Never1 said:
What you're wanting to do is essentially "upward compression" Instead of the compression clamping down on the loud parts, you want to raise the volume of the softer parts.

Running a properly set compressor that crushes everything except the notes you want to keep clean(fast attack, high ratio and slower release) and then having this compressed signal run in parallel to the dry guitar signal should do the trick. The uncompressed dry signal will give you all of your loud notes (while the compressor totally clamps down on these in the processed chain) and then as you sustain, the compressed side should slowly release and your quiet notes will hold steady, bringing their apparent relative volume up.

You may have to mess with the mix of dry vs compressed signal.

row 1 -------dry---------\
row 2-------compressor-----*combine both signals*--gate---->rest of signal chain----->
Click to expand...


Really interesting you mention this cause i didnt even think this might be a solution to the guys problem at all. Just this week i set up my second gate near the end of my chain with this method you just mentioned. I decided to do it cause i wanted to have a uncompressed signal that sounds more true to how a real amp would sound, but i also liked how the compressed signal smoothed out my reverb signal chain that runs along side the uncompressed signal. I didnt even think about what it could be doing for my sustain at all.
 
Never1 said:
What you're wanting to do is essentially "upward compression" Instead of the compression clamping down on the loud parts, you want to raise the volume of the softer parts.

Running a properly set compressor that crushes everything except the notes you want to keep clean(fast attack, high ratio and slower release) and then having this compressed signal run in parallel to the dry guitar signal should do the trick. The uncompressed dry signal will give you all of your loud notes (while the compressor totally clamps down on these in the processed chain) and then as you sustain, the compressed side should slowly release and your quiet notes will hold steady, bringing their apparent relative volume up.

You may have to mess with the mix of dry vs compressed signal.

row 1 -------dry---------\
row 2-------compressor-----*combine both signals*--gate---->rest of signal chain----->
Click to expand...

You don't need to do that. there is a mix parameter on the compressor.
 
javajunkie said:
Never1 said:
What you're wanting to do is essentially "upward compression" Instead of the compression clamping down on the loud parts, you want to raise the volume of the softer parts.

Running a properly set compressor that crushes everything except the notes you want to keep clean(fast attack, high ratio and slower release) and then having this compressed signal run in parallel to the dry guitar signal should do the trick. The uncompressed dry signal will give you all of your loud notes (while the compressor totally clamps down on these in the processed chain) and then as you sustain, the compressed side should slowly release and your quiet notes will hold steady, bringing their apparent relative volume up.

You may have to mess with the mix of dry vs compressed signal.

row 1 -------dry---------\
row 2-------compressor-----*combine both signals*--gate---->rest of signal chain----->
Click to expand...

You don't need to do that. there is a mix parameter on the compressor.
Click to expand...

hmmm... I guess you're right. I never ever use the compressors so I never poked around to check out the controls. The mix knob will do the parallel thing as mentioned above without the added row.
 
Never1 said:
javajunkie said:
Never1 said:
What you're wanting to do is essentially "upward compression" Instead of the compression clamping down on the loud parts, you want to raise the volume of the softer parts.

Running a properly set compressor that crushes everything except the notes you want to keep clean(fast attack, high ratio and slower release) and then having this compressed signal run in parallel to the dry guitar signal should do the trick. The uncompressed dry signal will give you all of your loud notes (while the compressor totally clamps down on these in the processed chain) and then as you sustain, the compressed side should slowly release and your quiet notes will hold steady, bringing their apparent relative volume up.

You may have to mess with the mix of dry vs compressed signal.

row 1 -------dry---------\
row 2-------compressor-----*combine both signals*--gate---->rest of signal chain----->
Click to expand...

You don't need to do that. there is a mix parameter on the compressor.
Click to expand...

hmmm... I guess you're right. I never ever use the compressors so I never poked around to check out the controls. The mix knob will do the parallel thing as mentioned above without the added row.
Click to expand...

It was added several firmwares back.
 
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