Complete Noob

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MikeHendrycks

New Member
Hey all,

I had a final evening of tone searching with my 5150iii and have come to the conclusion that i'm finally going to make the jump to full digital modelling. I've used Bias' apps and jamup for the past few years and found myself using it more and more. The last six months ive only used the 5150 and cab on weekends. I am currently not in a band and not playing any shows. It's so much less practical, versatile and honestly...the Bias apps with my own EQ and compression blow away the 5150 haha. I've kind of been lying to myself for months but after a whole evening trying to really get the tone i'm searching for that I can get from the apps and not being able to get the 5150 to do it I've decided enough is enough.


My question is, how the heck does this thing work? Like... I see people do unboxing videos or "First start up" and the things already on a rack plugged in to something. That doesn't exactly help.

I'd be selling my amp and cab unless it's ideal to use the cab for output. I have a really nice Bose sound system I use for the Bias as a headphone output that can go WAY above any level id want or be legally allowed in my apartment.

Can I buy a Axe-Fx II and use a headphone output to plug it into the Bose speaker system?

Also, do you need to have the unit connected to a computer to download patches or does it do it's own thing.

I literally have NO idea how this thing works (incase you couldnt tell already from the ridiculous questions i'm probably asking). I have only ever played tube amps besides the Bias apps.

Anyways, I am only asking as I want to know everything I need before I sell my other gear.

TLDR/ literally explain how to use AxeFX ii as though I were a caveman.
 
the axe has outputs on the back - XLR and 1/4" - and those can connect to the Bose or anything like normal sound equipment does. no need to use the Headphone jack for non-headphone duties.

the axe has "presets" on it which you might call "different sounds." the presets have different settings and combinations of amps, cabs, effects, and routing to create that particular sound. so probably just like Bias/jamup, you bring up a different preset number, and you have a different sound, and you can edit that sound to your liking.

so you actually probably know how it works already in general. it'd be learning the specifics once you get it. word of advice - adjust what you know and really, really, don't sweat the details. no one can learn an entire physical guitar rig - multiple amps, pedals, connections, methods, etc - in one day, and it's the same for a digital version.
 
Use the big knob to scroll through the presets by turning the big knob clockwise. There are a lot of presets so as a suggestion, write on a piece of paper the preset numbers you like. I would divide the presets into "clean", "rhythm", and "lead".

The wiki page is very helpful, and there are at least a godzillion videos on the internet. They should give you some good pointers.
 
Bose system? Do you mean their live performance stuff, or a Bose consumer audio system that you would use to listen to music in your house?

If you mean the former, use the XLR outs into the Bose input.

If you mean the latter, don't do it. Get yourself a pair of good usable monitors suitable for at least home recording.
 
chris said:
the axe has outputs on the back - XLR and 1/4" - and those can connect to the Bose or anything like normal sound equipment does. no need to use the Headphone jack for non-headphone duties.

the axe has "presets" on it which you might call "different sounds." the presets have different settings and combinations of amps, cabs, effects, and routing to create that particular sound. so probably just like Bias/jamup, you bring up a different preset number, and you have a different sound, and you can edit that sound to your liking.

so you actually probably know how it works already in general. it'd be learning the specifics once you get it. word of advice - adjust what you know and really, really, don't sweat the details. no one can learn an entire physical guitar rig - multiple amps, pedals, connections, methods, etc - in one day, and it's the same for a digital version.
Click to expand...

Awesome,

Thanks Chris.

5150 said:
Bose system? Do you mean their live performance stuff, or a Bose consumer audio system that you would use to listen to music in your house?

If you mean the former, use the XLR outs into the Bose input.

If you mean the latter, don't do it. Get yourself a pair of good usable monitors suitable for at least home recording.
Click to expand...


It's a iPod dock style home use player. It's honestly the best sounding audio player I've heard that wasn't in pro audio price range.

I don't intend on doing any recording on my own, I have a multitude of friends with professional engineering, producing and mixing degrees and certs. If I wanted to record I'd bring the axe to them.

This would be a player's purchase. I play guitar everyday. That's all. Will it not sound good through this dock port? My bias app patches I've made over the years sound better then my 5150iii and orange cab.
 
MikeHendrycks said:
Awesome,

Thanks Chris.




It's a iPod dock style home use player. It's honestly the best sounding audio player I've heard that wasn't in pro audio price range.

I don't intend on doing any recording on my own, I have a multitude of friends with professional engineering, producing and mixing degrees and certs. If I wanted to record I'd bring the axe to them.

This would be a player's purchase. I play guitar everyday. That's all. Will it not sound good through this dock port? My bias app patches I've made over the years sound better then my 5150iii and orange cab.
Click to expand...
Give it a try...if you're happy with Bose yer done, if not, the choices for relatively excellent monitors is huge at all price points, do a search here and you will be aWASH in suggestions
 
Also, you'll need to have the Axe-FX connected via USB to a computer in order to update it. There's a free application called Fractal-Bot that is used to update the unit. In a nutshell, you download the firmware from Fractal Audio's website (or a firmware announcement thread here on the forum) and use Fractal-Bot to install it. It's a very straightforward process.
 
I have a very nice set of studio monitors, but really prefer hearing my Axe-Fx II through a powered PA type of speaker. Even cheaper ones sound better to me. But that last couple of years I've used a Mackie DLM8 (so not cheap, but not too pricey) and find it a great listening experience.

Note: I do run everything through a mixer, a $150 Behringer. Lots of control and great for running tracks, etc.

So many options. Good news is you can easily adapt the Fractal to sound great any number of ways. Once you spend a bit of time with it, you'll wonder why you waited so long. This is by far the best money I've spent on gear in 45 years of playing and gigging.

Excellent group of folks here! Ask away! They have been a HUGE help to me from day 1.
 
I hate to say it, but you will not be happy with the sound you get through the Axe Fx and the Bose Home system.

If you want to keep your current Cab, you will need to purchase a Power Amp to boost the signal, or a Powered FRFR Speaker of some kind. These are basically flat response speakers that won't impart any "color" to your sound.

The best advice I can give you is that once you get the unit, go through the first 100 presets and see what sounds good to you. Then read the manual. Take your time with it. The learning curve is steep but sooooo worth it.
 
If you like the Bose system for listening to music it should work very well for playing the Axe FX through. You should be able to get it to sound great!!! the only problem you will run into will be if you try and play live with sounds you have made using the Bose system. If you are just playing at home just plug into any system you like listening to music on!!!
 
MIkeHendrycks,

I think you're psyching yourself out a little. If you can figure out how to use BIAS apps and JamUp pro, you can definitely figure out the Axe FX. Keep in mind that the Axe FX was created with pro musicians in mind so there are a lot of Inputs, Outputs, and MIDI, etc. to accommodate their needs but it's also very easy to use for an every-day bedroom rocker. To answer some of your questions:

My question is, how the heck does this thing work? Like... I see people do unboxing videos or "First start up" and the things already on a rack plugged in to something. That doesn't exactly help.
Just think of the Axe FX as a tube amplifier - in the sense that you plug the guitar into the front and plug a speaker (your BOSE system) in the back. That's it. Guitar goes into the Input jack on the front, the Output 1 Left and Right jacks go to your sound system. Or you can use the headphone jack on the front of the unit. Control the volume with the Output Level knob on the front of the Axe FX. Really, that's it.

I'd be selling my amp and cab unless it's ideal to use the cab for output. I have a really nice Bose sound system I use for the Bias as a headphone output that can go WAY above any level id want or be legally allowed in my apartment.
If you want to keep your cab and run your Axe FX through it, it gets a little complicated. You'll need a power amp to go between the Axe FX and the cab. The Axe FX on it's own was not built to power a cab. If you want to just use your Bose sound system, you won't need a power amp. You simply just use the Outputs on the back (or the front headphone jack) of the Axe FX.

Can I buy a Axe-Fx II and use a headphone output to plug it into the Bose speaker system?
Yes.

Also, do you need to have the unit connected to a computer to download patches or does it do it's own thing.
The Axe FX has patches built into the unit when you get it so you don't need to download them to start. If you want to get more patches (either from the AxeExchange or somewhere else), you'll have to be connected to a computer via USB.

I literally have NO idea how this thing works (incase you couldnt tell already from the ridiculous questions i'm probably asking). I have only ever played tube amps besides the Bias apps.
If you can use the Bias apps, you can figure out the Axe FX. You can control all the amps, effects and their parameters on the unit's front panel, but the easiest and preferred way is to have the Axe FX connected to a computer via USB and use the program Axe Edit. I personally find Axe Edit to be very clear and very easy to use.
 
Plan on getting a control pedal of some sort unless you are a "no effects" guy. FAS's MFC-101 is probably the most comprehensive solution, but it's pricey. If your comfortable with a little MIDI programming there are a number of less expensive pedals. I use an Axe/FX II w/ Behringer FCB1010 (w/Uno chip). You might also consider the AX8 all-in-a-floor-pedal unit. It's not quite as powerful as the rack system but still sounds better than most anything else I've tried and is amazingly convenient.
 
Lol what is it about Bias.
I bought that toy software and I feel very bitter about it. Buying Bais made say "sod this, I need an Axe FX.
WHile you might not be bitter about Bias it's certainly having the same conclusion :)
 
MikeHendrycks said:
It's a iPod dock style home use player. It's honestly the best sounding audio player I've heard that wasn't in pro audio price range.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the Bose sounds great. But it's not about how good the system is, more that the Axe-FX is a full-range live performance tool for use onstage and in studio, and that the Bose is not designed for that purpose. At all. A system designed for recorded/mixed/mastered program material is not the same as a studio monitor. You may be able to tweak the Axe to sound good on this system, but those patches will not translate as you will be compensating for how the Bose is designed.

Systems designed specifically for home listening are far from flat, by design. Manufacturers choose what frequencies to accent to give the system hype and liveliness, and sometimes to get a "signature sound". You'll be working around those design decisions and you've already expressed some reluctance about learning how to use the Axe.

Any assumption, as some have done here, that the Bose will somehow automatically sound great with the Axe because you think it sounds good playing MP3's is wishful thinking based on little evidence. In the end, the only one who can determine if it sounds good is YOU.

There's a continuum here, and if you asked me to bet how well things are going to work out based on your decisions vis-a-vis sound reproduction, I'm going to bet my money on the monitor end of the spectrum. Even entry-level monitors will be better suited.

MikeHendrycks said:
I don't intend on doing any recording on my own, I have a multitude of friends with professional engineering, producing and mixing degrees and certs. If I wanted to record I'd bring the axe to them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too! And not a single one of them would choose to run their Axe's (they mostly all have one in their studios) into a home sound system or iPod dock. Ask your friends and see what they say. They should be able to very clearly articulate the differences in home music reproduction systems, and monitors.

MikeHendrycks said:
This would be a player's purchase. I play guitar everyday. That's all. Will it not sound good through this dock port? My bias app patches I've made over the years sound better then my 5150iii and orange cab.
Click to expand...

Again, only you can know how happy you are with the results, and there's no 100% accurate way to predict it, but I've given you my opinion and it's a fairly middle-of-the-road opinion and analysis. There's a lot to unpack in the statement that Bias patches through an iPod dock sound better than a 5150 III, so I'm not going to open that can of worms.

For someone brand new to a modeler like this, and somewhat tentative about it, it may make more sense to get an AX8 and use the money saved on a pair of decent monitors. That will give you a far more accurate representation of the glorious noises made by modeler.
 
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I am not at all familiar with Bose equipment, however, if you get good sounds from Bias utilizing additional eq and compression, I would venture to say you could do the same with the axe - and beyond.

Know this:

The axe is designed to be ran into a "Full Range Flat Response" (FRFR, search will yield much info). When run into a frfr system utilizing an appropriate cab/ir, the axe fx is capable of giving you incredibly realistic sounds ....and "feel". As a speaker system deviates from frfr, so does the axe fx's sound deviate from ideal. Extra eq, which the axe has in spades, can be utilized to correct the response; just like your doing for Bias.

About speaker systems:

No speaker system is perfectly flat, and even if it were, the room will change it. However, some systems get much closer than others. There is a ton of info on this forum and also a ton of very nice and knowledgeable people here eager to help you. This is a great community!!! So while this stuff can get just about as complex as NASA, don't worry, there are affordable ways to hear the axe fx if your Bose system absolutely doesn't work.

Also:

The axe can also be ran into a guitar cab. Running into a real cab yields and experience just like running a real amp into a real cab. You must provide a power source to power the speaker. There are a number ways to power the cab but lets make it simple and say that just about any decent solid state amp will work. Of course you want an amp the does not color the sound as this will allow you to use all of the axe fx's power amp modeling.

As has been said, the axe fx comes with many pre programmed presets which you can select. Within any of this presets, you can insert/change any of the amps modeled, any of the speakers, and any of the fx modules to form your own preset.

The axe fx is the state of the art modeling unit. It is a professional grade unit. Although it is extremely flexible and powerful and does require a little thought and consideration in its application, it is also very intuitive. Excellent and accurate sounds are readily available without having an engineering degree.

There is a return policy but I bet you will not use it.
 
I don't know if any body addressed the computer question so I will say a few words about it. You already know that the axe fx has presets and is fully programmable with out a computer. However, Fractal offers a very nice user interface called "Axe Edit" that most folks use. There are also some other UI's out there. There is also Axechange which is a cloud source where many presets can be down loaded. Of course this stuff requires a computer. Both windows and apple are supported. Fractal is also always improving the unit and offer these improvements free of charge in the form of "firmwares" or FW for short. We are currently at FW 17beta now, (I think). These Fw's are downloadable from the Fractal website/forum and installed with a free utility called "Fractal Bot".

Of course this stuff requires a computer. Both windows and apple are supported.
 
bradlake said:
Give it a try...if you're happy with Bose yer done, if not, the choices for relatively excellent monitors is huge at all price points, do a search here and you will be aWASH in suggestions
Click to expand...

This.

Welcome to the forum MikeHendrycks! :)

Lot's of very useful and helpful information has already been presented in the replies to the OP's questions. I'll add my own experience in hopes that it may be helpful to the OP

I purchased my first AxeFX with the same intention and under the same circumstances (no longer gigging, purchased for my own enjoyment). I planned to replace my amps with the AxeFX and I was so pleased with how the AxeFX sounded/responded that I sold all of my amps. I had no intention of changing my then audio equipment (an inexpensive pair of monitors and an inexpensive set of headphones). I was pleased with the sound through my existing gear so I decided against any further expense after purchasing the AxeFX (1st gen, AxeFX Ultra). I had been using software amp & effects emulation software occasionally at home prior to this decision.

The learning curve was not too steep from my perspective, and this is when advanced parameters were more commonly used to get ones desired results. Though Axe-Edit (the software editor for the AxeFX) made the task of tweaking an amps advanced parameters very easy I became very proficient at doing the same right from the front panel. Axe-Edit is free, it's kept current with the AxeFX firmware updates (where parameters may be added or changed), and it's as easy or easier to use than many software amp/effects emulation software.

Things have changed for me since. I'm still not gigging or actively involved with other musicians as a band/project. I'm still just using the AxeFX for my own enjoyment at home (now a current gen AxeFX II, I traded up after several years), and I have changed my audio playback equipment to provide a much more accurate representation of the AxeFX II's output signal. The change in audio playback equipment wasn't necessary really - more of an indulgence.

The current gen AxeFX units (AxeFX II / AxeFX II XL / AxeFX II XL+ / AX8) sound and feel so much like the amps being modeled at default settings that the AxeFX II has become completely plug & play IMO. The presets are very good and provide a wide range of preset effects that may be saved as blocks and the easily dropped into your own patches with little or no additional tweaking necessary. Building new patches has become as easy as dropping an amp block and a cab block in place and selecting the type for each - dropping in any desired effect blocks, and making any adjustments just as you would to the real-world equivalent equipment (set amp input gain and treb/mid/bass as desired - set delay time and mix controls as desired - set reverb type and mix as desired - set overdrive pedal gain/tone/level as desired - etc.). Easy enough from the front panel and just plain simple from Axe-Edit.

The AxeFX II's output provides a realistic emulation of a mic'd guitar amp/cab/speaker. This is, of course, no different from the software modeling that you have made use of to date. As Guitarmike noted above it is possible to use the AxeFX with a real guitar cabinet and get the same results as one would with a real amp through that cabinet. One just needs a power amp to drive the speakers. Using a clean FRFR (full range, flat response) solid state amp one can use the AxeFX to emulate the entire guitar amp (preamp and power amp) for the most accurate results. As the cab/speaker plays a significant role in shaping the sound of a guitar amp (a quick listen to a line out of a guitar amplifier will illustrate just how much the cab/speaker contributes) using a single real-world guitar cabinet will limit the versatility available in the AxeFX II but it will provide the much discussed 'amp in the room' experience - with all of the good and bad that comes with it. The amp/cab/speaker/mic emulation from modelers produce is far more useful as it is an accurate representation of what an audience hears from the front of house / PA system and what music listeners hear from albums/CD's/.mp3's/FLAC/etc.
 
Thanks to all for the awesome responses!

I purchased an AX8, it got here in ridiculously quick fashion, was estimated for monday but she showed up yesterday evening!

Holy shnickeys is this thing fantabulous. While I do intend to get a FRFR speaker or monitors of some sort, for right now plugging it into my Bose has been fantastic. While it's clearly not ideal the setup as is still instantly brought a ---- eating grin to my face that was stuck on until 2 in the morning when I realized I should probably shut her down and get some sleep. Same thing today. The clarity and precision of this thing is next level. The note definition is like nothing i've heard before. I can only compare it to experiencing an IMAX movie at the theater after years of normal movies. I still loved going to the movies and I love my old gear but this is like.....wow. Functional, concise and effortless with nothing but room to grow.

I wish I hadn't waited so dang long!
 
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