CLR guys

zentman

zentman

Experienced
Are some of the bank A presets slightly bass heavy even on your flat systems? Specifically some of those recto patches? Stuff like Recto Vintage. Maybe it's just my monitors. Wondering.
 
IMO the factory presets don't sound that great (for basic amp tones at least). It has been many firmwares since I tried any as I erased them all a while back, but they were flubby and bass heavy at that time. I'd recommend making your own.
 
antcarrier said:
IMO the factory presets don't sound that great (for basic amp tones at least). It has been many firmwares since I tried any as I erased them all a while back, but they were flubby and bass heavy at that time. I'd recommend making your own.
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Much better these days since ver 9 or 10. I'm asking for a different reason. It is something in common that can be compared.
 
I'm assuming that you guys are talking about the Axe-FX II. If so, it's quirky that people are still saying that the default presets are lacking. People have been saying that since day one with the Axe-1. What's up with that? The unit(s) can get you any tone you could want yet the people who made it couldn't get the thing to sound great out of the box? Isn't that kinda' weird?

None the less I've always gotten great default tones when I use the global setting to turn off cab sims. In my opinion it's not the default patches that are lacking - it's the cabs. They can be tweaked, of course, but I mean straight out of the box when I use the unit with my tube combo and therefore turn off the cab sims everything sounds pretty good with no tweaking. Of course, when I change to my reference monitors I have to use cab sims and then it's back to tweaking.
 
Slightly off topic, but related...

Remember when DAR amps was going to release the FBM stuff that had ultra high resolution IRs (10,000pt)? Well that never actually happened, but the theory behind the need for higher resolution IRs is pretty interesting. I often wonder if the reason there is excessive woof in modelers is due to the IR not having enough "sliders on the EQ" in the lower frequencies.

Ultimate Metal Forum - View Single Post - Dar Future breed machine...
 
Ringleader said:
Slightly off topic, but related...

Remember when DAR amps was going to release the FBM stuff that had ultra high resolution IRs (10,000pt)? Well that never actually happened, but the theory behind the need for higher resolution IRs is pretty interesting. I often wonder if the reason there is excessive woof in modelers is due to the IR not having enough "sliders on the EQ" in the lower frequencies.

Ultimate Metal Forum - View Single Post - Dar Future breed machine...
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Interesting post and explanation ! and if it really makes that big of a difference I could see where the bass cab sims would benefit.
 
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I think we all agree that the cab sim is pretty much the most important part of the modeled tone when running direct. I also know that Cliff has stated in the past that 2048 was a high enough resolution to where you can't really hear a difference (or something along those lines). But, I wonder how much emphasis he placed on comparing the lower frequency response between the different resolutions.

And for the higher resolution IR to really work, the IR would have to be shot at the 10,000 point resolution from the beginning. Meaning, you wouldn't be able to shoot it at 2048 and then somehow convert it to 10,000 and expect to get the same results. In this case, you would be getting a higher resolution of an already flawed IR curve.

I think that everyone who uses modeling kind of struggles with low end woof to some degree, and I don't really believe that the CLR is going to fix that. This IR resolution thing makes sense to me. Enough so that I sold my Ultra back when the FBM preamp pedal was announced (and which of course was never released).
 
Since the Factory Presets on the website are dated April 5 that means that they have not yet been updated for the tuned up Recto models introduced in 10.06. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if those Recto presets sound a little off. We'll try to fix that shortly.

In my experience most "pro-sumer" grade speakers have some artificial bass boost compared to "flat" speakers like the CLR. If I tweak a factory preset with the CLR it almost always sounds woofier on the less expensive desktop monitors I have in my office.

Also, we don't tweak the presets at full gig volume. I'd say more "loud bedroom" volume. So at full volume they might need some bass cut because of Fletcher Munson. Again, in my experience the Fletcher Munson effect is even more noticeable with "flat" type speakers because you don't get the artificial bass boost at lower volumes that you might get with cheaper speakers.
 
zentman said:
Are some of the bank A presets slightly bass heavy even on your flat systems? Specifically some of those recto patches? Stuff like Recto Vintage. Maybe it's just my monitors. Wondering.
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Some were a little bass heavy for me (through a pair of CLR's) but I'm not playing in a treated room or control room environment. That said, all presets are so guitar/room/player dependent that I don't think it really matters. I start off with a little high pass usually and then start switching IR's. The factory presets are nice to get you a quick sample of what the model should sound like to some extent, but I have never been able to use on of them without doing some mild to not so mild changes.
 
AdamCook said:
Again, in my experience the Fletcher Munson effect is even more noticeable with "flat" type speakers because you don't get the artificial bass boost at lower volumes that you might get with cheaper speakers.
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Ha, so by spending the big bucks on the higher end monitor you are actually shooting yourself in the foot since your direct signal to FOH will have the little bit of extra bass that you added to beef up your CLR tone which will be compounded by the inherent extra bass in the sub-par PA mains. It's a lose-lose situation.
 
Ringleader said:
Ha, so by spending the big bucks on the higher end monitor you are actually shooting yourself in the foot since your direct signal to FOH will have the little bit of extra bass that you added to beef up your CLR tone which will be compounded by the inherent extra bass in the sub-par PA mains. It's a lose-lose situation.
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You cannot get a fix for accuracy. You need to fix the inherently sub par gear any way. Win/win. ;)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
Scott Peterson said:
You cannot get a fix for accuracy. You need to fix the inherently sub par gear any way. Win/win. ;)
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No I get it, a CLR arrives this afternoon at my doorstep. This is the product I have been waiting for since Atomic released their first version FR cabs.

Just being a realist. Try telling your next soundman that he needs to replace his PA because your recto patches are sounding a little bit woofy in FOH lol.
 
Ringleader said:
No I get it, a CLR arrives this afternoon at my doorstep. This is the product I have been waiting for since Atomic released their first version FR cabs.

Just being a realist. Try telling your next soundman that he needs to replace his PA because your recto patches are sounding a little bit woofy in FOH lol.
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Maybe they can just tame the lows on the mixer. That should help the PA sound.
 
If you are 100% aware of your tone, take just two minutes infront of FOH and direct the sound-guy to dial in the best according to the gear used.
 
Speaking of FOH, I walked out a few weeks ago at a place and my guitar was squished to hell. The "soundman" had taken it upon himself to apply copious amounts of compression as it was built in to his new mixer. I mean, if it's there, you're supposed to use it right? I won't mention the bump he added at 100hz just because.
 
If you are running your own PA, then dial in what sounds best.

If someone else is running the FOH, then let them do their thing. They should know the performance space and FOH system better than you anyway. At the minimum they will be able to make adjustments during the show while you are performing.

I don't really care if the e gtr channel strip is flat or not. Whatever works for the room and the mix. Rock on!
 
zentman said:
Speaking of FOH, I walked out a few weeks ago at a place and my guitar was squished to hell. The "soundman" had taken it upon himself to apply copious amounts of compression as it was built in to his new mixer. I mean, if it's there, you're supposed to use it right? I won't mention the bump he added at 100hz just because.
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All these guys with their fancy iOS controllable mixers (actually pretty cool), a gigging musician needs to carry their own iOS device around just to be able to hack into their wi-fi and turn all that sh!t off when they're not looking.
 
I have been through many three-set gig's where the soundman found the near perfect mix at the last tune. My mail-man could have done it better. No excuses for not being critical as a member of any band.
 
I'm always backing up someone else, i.e. I'm not the talent.

In my experience, sweating the crew about my guitar tone doesn't accomplish much.

If my tone is borked because the techs don't know what they are doing, the vocals and everything else are probably blown too.

The LV would be where the complaints start.
 
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