Clean Jazz Guitar Sound on Ultra, please help!

RJSAudio.

RJSAudio.

Inspired
Hey there,

I've spent forever trying to find a basic clean jazz guitar sound on my Ultra...and can't seem to get anywhere. Here's 20 seconds of noodling so you know what I'm working with.


I've tried every cab amp compressor eq and whatever else I can find in this box, but the tone just sounds lifeless...there's no fullness, and there's no bite! It just feels and sounds thin and tinny. Any tips???? I'm really just trying to get the sound of 57 on a Twin Reverb with an ES-175...aka the gear that's to the right of my Ultra! Hahaha...

Thanks! :D
 
I typed a whole big deal and it disappeared. Bummer. Sounds like a 175 to me. Have you listened to SoCal on the fractal site? It's a demo. It's the Benson p[atch with a compressor mostly. Sounds pretty darn good to me. It actually was the demo that was the final push for me to spend the $$$-more than 2 years ago.
Your playing sounds real nice btw. Believe it or not I have had some reat success with the Shiva Clean-try that one also. I am not a jazz player, but I am mainly clean tones-blues, jazzy rock type of stuff.
 
Nice playing here ! But I would not use a compressor or delay if i would play something like that. I think it would be easier to find the tone without those effects.
 
Indeed nice playing! :)

What exactly don't you like about the sound? To me you have a bit much treble and I am also not so keen on the compressor, but that is mostly taste.
If you are more specific maybe we can offer better advice, try posting a preset? And maybe try to post an example of the sound you'd like?

I've posted some twin presets around here you could try them?

Jens
 
Thanks for responses! Ya that So-Cal Driving is a pretty nice tone! I'll play around with the JC-120 a bit more. I think i might just be looking for something that's not quite there, but we'll see! As far as the effects, I dialed the amp and cab without em, but I do like some delay on my cleans.
 
Jens said:
Indeed nice playing! :)

What exactly don't you like about the sound? To me you have a bit much treble and I am also not so keen on the compressor, but that is mostly taste.
If you are more specific maybe we can offer better advice, try posting a preset? And maybe try to post an example of the sound you'd like?

I've posted some twin presets around here you could try them?

Jens
Click to expand...

It just sounds....lifeless! Idk tough to describe - if you are familiar with Kurt Rosenwinkel (pauliusmm appears to be!), his tone on the intro to "How Deep is The Ocean" off of "Intuit" is what I've been playing all day trying to get some of that fullness. Here tis:

YouTube - ‪Kurt Rosenwinkel Quartet - How Deep Is the Ocean‬‏

And there is no compressor on this recording - but I will say there is a ton of the compression in these amp sims! I'd love to try your presets, how do I find them?

EDIT: Okay...that was a little cryptic, haha. I'd describe what I'm looking for as fuller tone, more mid-rangey, and with a bit more sustain. I agree, the clip sounds a bit trebley, but I can't seem to find a good way to reduce the highs without it losing some clarity.
 
Last edited:
Ok. I know that recording. Is that a twin? I thought it was a polytone, but I have no idea...

Here are some of my presets:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/floor...etness-using-expression-pedal.html#post522128
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/share-request-patches/36161-twin-reverb-patch-3.html#post499781

And I've attached some newer versions of the same presets (it's a work in progress.....)

Check out using the hi cut, the xformer hicut and the hi frequency resonance for reducing highs. (start with the hi cut).

If you post a preset I might have more specific suggestions.

Jens
 

Attachments

  • Twin 09-06-11.syx
    2 KB · Views: 47
  • TwinRat 04-07-11.syx
    2 KB · Views: 46
his tone has a huge peak @ 440 Hz
I tweaked the JC sim to have that characteristic, plus some other stuff and added a quadchorus (I turned down rate) and a med room (default) for good measure.
On my Yamaha SG2000 neck pickup it's quite close.

The key is the tweaked amp sim, I think. go from there (tonestack, cab, eq...)
 

Attachments

  • Kurt Rosenwinkel 01.syx
    2 KB · Views: 61
You know I just assumed it was a Twin b/c that's what he's always played when I've been around him but come to think of it that probably is a Polytone on that recording, cuz that's an old record. Well, that makes a little more sense. Thanks for the presets everyone! I've already gotten a lot closer to what I'm looking for...I'll try and post it when I have it down!
 
I sold my Ultra and i was too lazy to save my tones. I don't even remember what amps i used, but i think i will dial the II with less trouble. Rosenwinkel sounds midrangy to me, but that mostly comes from semi hollow guitar i guess. I like to roll off tone knob on the guitar a bit and use some darker sounding amps /cabs. Then maybe find the sweet spot with the midrange frequency. I think midrange is the key to cut through even with a dark tone. And also use heavy strings.
I have a D'Angelico semi hollow and actually it has that midrangy sound that is close to Kurt's tone.


here's some of my recordings

http://soundcloud.com/pvolkovas/dependent-quartet-rugtones

http://soundcloud.com/leonardaspilkauskas/natione-predicta/
 
Last edited:
Maybe turn up the poweramp bias. That always works for me to make it sound warmer and a bit more compressesed. Change it from 0.35 to 0.75 or even maxed at 1.00 (or 0.99? can't remember the ceiling).
Also, that recording sounds like there's a touch more poweramp pushing. Maybe turn up the Master Volume too. Another couple tweeks you can do is turn the Depth and Damp controls clockwise.

As well, make sure you're using v11.0 firmware.
 
one more

added snap! compressor
more Master & Sag, tweaked power tube bias (thanks BlueLotus!).
 

Attachments

  • Kurt Rosenwinkel 02(2).syx
    2 KB · Views: 61
He used a tiny bit of compression-Don't know why everyone is so set against it? I think the socal driving sound is great. Just me I guess. I'll take that tone everytime. When I emailed the guy way back when he said he used a touch of compression.
 
It's a jazz thing I guess. We are prejudiced against compressors, try not to hold it against us :)

Jens
 
Dudes, I didn't use a compressor on this recording. I just said I tried it out. But - I do think that the amp sims on the Axe have loads of compression in them.
 
Regarding Jazzy tones,

I've had problems too... I've used several tube amps, an Acoustic Image amp, and my Axe-FX ultra w/ multiple speaker cabinets.

Then I figured this out:

1. Tone is in the hands primarily (even w/ jazz)
2. A lot of famous jazz guitarists then and now use off-the-shelf music store amps (various polytone amps, roland cubes, fender tube amps), so what is their secret??
3. A lot of the recordings we are basing our experiences from are from bad quality recordings or from live shows where the guys are using rented equipment, pa system sucks, OR you are listening to too many youtube videos (guilty). (For example, that K Rosenwinkel youtube link is a very low quality recording.... so any crispness that may be on the cd is missing... I'm listening from my Adam A7 monitors fed from my M-Audio FTU and I can tell a lot of definition is missing...maybe in the studio his amp was harsh and the sound guy rolled off the highs?)
4. The pick shape and MATERIAL will define your sound more than you think. A while back I ordered about 20 different picks to bring my pick collection to about 50 different picks. I was looking for the best sounding pick. I tried the big stubby in grey (nylon?) and in purple (plastic?) and the tone was completely different even though size and shape were same. Then I tried the 205/208 line, also by Jim Dunlop...what I huge difference.... (also picking angle.... a huge part of Benson's sound is the flat, 90 degree angle he holds the pick...it's really not the way most guitarists would do it, but it gives him a fat, juicy, even sound)
5. Strings.... ever try tomastik infeld? Chromes are great, but the Tomastiks sound 20% better... not sure how, but they really do make your tone better.
6. The guitar.... don't get me started.... brand, model, size, shape, age, tone wood, even the neck wood..., fret material, pickup brand, blah, blah, blah.... Have you ever listened to the Joe pass Virtuoso recordings? I was analyzing them one day and realized something: his tone isn't really all that fat and juicy.... and his picking noise can be annoying.... but the feel he had and the notes he chose is what gave him that sweet sound... the hands....
7. Tone knob.... if you have one, do a pat metheny and roll it all the way off..... or do that with your amp settings.... yes, you'll lose clarity, but you'll sound jazzier.....maybe.

I honestly think that for jazz, the amp is one of the less important considerations for a good jazz tone.
 
I also had a lot of problems getting the jazz tone I was looking for. Ultimately I got pretty close with the Benson patch but I backed off the compressor quite a bit and messed with the EQ. I use a 335 with it and after many hours I got pretty darn close to what I wanted to hear. I have a Godin LGXST and it doesn't sound nearly as good through the same patch so the guitar really matters with this type of sound. I think the jazz and fenderish clean sounds are the weakest part of the ultra. I am really hoping this is improved in the Axe II. I will say that once you add even the slightest bit of drive to the jazz clean sounds they start to come alive but this is not always appropriate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom