Classic signal chain vs the Axe-Fx approach

[Rex]

Evidently pitch shift isn't LTI.

Pitch-shifting is time-invariant, but it's not linear.

Looking at it another way: if you put the pitch shifter in front of the cab, you're just changing the pitch of your amp's signal; if you put it after the cab, you're also shifting the resonances (the voicing) of the cab itself.

 

[lysergene]

Interesting question the OP posted.
Trying to think out of the box, I would like to ask the OP a different question.
Have you tried coming out of your amp, then go into your effect units, then into your speakers?
You never know how it will sound.

Actually I have done a lot of trying to understand which effect should go where in the chain and exactly why. Parallel, in series, double loopback?
Then I noted that most of the really good presets do not match my "perfect chain".
I tried fixing them, but then didn't sound as good. And as most things in life, I determined that actually trying something and experimenting was
much more productive my exhaustive mental masturbation.
Medium Spring Reverb or Medium Room Reverb?
Reverb before cab block or after?
There is no correct answer. You try it and find the sound that works best for you.
No matter what preset or chain config, their is a guy on YouTube name "Bergs" that kicks my ass, hard!
I quit worrying about things like the perfect chain, the proper reverb, and now I focus on playing and enjoying all the awesome sounds this unit can make.
I struggle to listen to some of the metal stuff, but we all like something different, and Axe-Fx can do it.
Don't over think. Play!

I tend to agree, if there was such a thing as a "perfect" signal chain then there would be no Axe FX and option to switch it around. Try everything!

 

[Chronos]

yes, i run a site called "Axe-Fx Tutorials" and i make tutorial videos without trying anything... hilarious.

make sure you know what you're talking about before you go on the offensive. now you made yourself look like an idiot.

Man, I feel bad for anyone that uses your website. I am very well versed in how this works, and I know you clearly haven't quite figured out the science of this in your pea brain that runs a website built off of copy pasting the release notes from FW updates.

Time-variant effects will sound different whether it is placed before or after the Cab block, while it is time-invariant effects that do not have an effect. The link you posted is even the source for this which makes this all the more hilarious.

 

[sprint]

An important consideration with respect to putting fx pre or post cab is that if you use STEREO fx, putting them pre-cab will require a stereo cab to retain the stereo image. This is one of the main reasons I personally often put fx post-cab - it allows me to use a less cpu expensive mono cab with stereo fx.

 

[chris]

Man, I feel bad for anyone that uses your website. I am very well versed in how this works, and I know you clearly haven't quite figured out the science of this in your pea brain that runs a website built off of copy pasting the release notes from FW updates.

Time-variant effects will sound different whether it is placed before or after the Cab block, while it is time-invariant effects that do not have an effect. The link you posted is even the source for this which makes this all the more hilarious.

thank you for calling me names like "pea brain." i'm glad that you say all i do is copy and paste release notes.

Here's what you said:

Reverb and other effects will have a difference depending on if it's before or after the Cab block even without the Drive parameter

and here is what the Wiki says, echoing Cliff and other experts:

The cab is a linear time invariant effect (unless you add drive) so effects like delay and reverb will sound the same before or after it.

i don't know how much clearer i can make that.

the difference is Linear vs Non-linear, not Time-variant vs Time-invariant.

please explain how wrong i am to my pea brain that just doesn't get it.

 

[59Lespaul]

I know this isnt exactly what the OP was getting at but notwithstanding the discussion on pre/post preamp/power amp I think one of the greatest things about the AXE is the ease of configuring your signal chain however you wish and then the simplicity of tweaking that and hearing the result right away. At a point (in my pre-Axe life) I had a fairly complex pedal board and I would spend hours getting it set up "right" and then dreaded making changes (velcro, wiring, etc.). Now I set up my signal chain and with the click of my mouse I can see if Eddie was onto something with the position of his phaser, I always try different reverbs in different positions and on and on. The best thing is that I can judge for myself, in real time what sounds "best".

 

[Chronos]

i don't know how much clearer i can make that.

the difference is Linear vs Non-linear, not Time-variant vs Time-invariant.

please explain how wrong i am to my pea brain that just doesn't get it.

"The difference in having the cabinet before or after the effects is usually subtle. It depends on how non-linear or time-variant the effect is. For effects like EQ, which are linear and time-invariant, it doesn't matter at all. For slightly time-variant effects like chorus and flanger the difference isn't very pronounced. For highly time-variant effects, like pitch shifting, the difference can be marked."

Subtle is a very subjective word here, and it is possible to find a profound variation in the placement of effects.