Charvel Pro Mod dk-24 tuning issues

unix-guy said:
Yeah... I literally never heard of witness points before you mentioned it.


As far as I can tell they are ok... I can't see or feel anything that is apparent.


Check. There is string tree for the D&G and another for the B&E.

Interestingly, the low E and A strings seem pretty stable.


I will take a look - did a bit of reading on witness points at lunch today.

The G is definitely the worst offender but all 4 top strings do exhibit the behavior.

Edit:

Skimmed the 1st thread... Watched the video and read the posts from Suhr. Funny that the thread was started by @atquinn ;)

Also... As @Igor Paspalj and the video talk about it, this is happening only with big bends. My experience so far is that it occurs with only a full step bend.

But promising that John says the locking saddles are the closest solution and I plan on getting them.
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From what I have noted, John talks about the lower tension strings having this problem. Low E and A are your highest tension strings, so it follows they would be least affected.

He has also talked about how different string gauges as well as break angle over the nut and/or the saddles can play a role.

You didn’t lower the bridge did you? Like deck the tremolo or significantly lower it? If you did, you could have made a shallower break angle over the saddles.
 
Capt Nasty said:
From what I have noted, John talks about the lower tension strings having this problem. Low E and A are your highest tension strings, so it follows they would be least affected.

He has also talked about how different string gauges as well as break angle over the nut and/or the saddles can play a role.

You didn’t lower the bridge did you? Like deck the tremolo or significantly lower it? If you did, you could have made a shallower break angle over the saddles.
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Nope...
 
Based on the reading from the links here I figured out how to resolve the G tuning issue on my 510-equipped Suhr, I basically need to just pull the tremolo all the way back till it decks after any big bends, whether they are down with the trem or up with my fingers... seems to work like a charm. I'll probably still look into the washburn locking saddles when they become available though
 
Kamil Kisiel said:
Based on the reading from the links here I figured out how to resolve the G tuning issue on my 510-equipped Suhr, I basically need to just pull the tremolo all the way back till it decks after any big bends, whether they are down with the trem or up with my fingers... seems to work like a charm. I'll probably still look into the washburn locking saddles when they become available though
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Hmmm... Pulling up definitely does not help for me. Are you sure it's not binding at headstock end?
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure there's no binding at the headstock, I know what that feels / sounds like. The string also goes back perfectly in tune after pulling up on the bridge. I'm pretty sure it's because I lowered my bridge way down, and this guitar has the bent steel saddles, so the whole break angle on the saddle effect is probably exaggerated.
 
Kamil Kisiel said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure there's no binding at the headstock, I know what that feels / sounds like. The string also goes back perfectly in tune after pulling up on the bridge. I'm pretty sure it's because I lowered my bridge way down, and this guitar has the bent steel saddles, so the whole break angle on the saddle effect is probably exaggerated.
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That could be... Maybe shim the neck and raise the saddles to increase the break angle?
 
I think as per the posts by John Suhr and some videos I watched with Guthrie Govan, the current behaviour is basically what's to be expected from this type of bridge... that's why locking saddles were a good thing :)
 
unix-guy said:
That could be... Maybe shim the neck and raise the saddles to increase the break angle?
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Could help some. If you do go the shim route, you need to use a full pocket shim. The old shim with a guitar pick or business card technique has been found over the years to cause ski-sloping: https://hazeguitars.com/blog/the-perils-of-bad-neck-shims

Stew Mac has full pocket shims pre-made: https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_a...itar_Necks/StewMac_Neck_Shims_for_Guitar.html

BTW a good way to determine where the tuning issue lies is to use a properly applied capo (not too tight). If the de-tuning still occurs with a capo on, the issue lies at the bridge. If the de-tuning stops with a capo on, the problem is at the nut.
 
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awesome, I'm interested to hear how it works for you. If I did this, I could go back to the stock bridge which fits the body routing better.
 
Ok, so I installed the locking saddles. They seem to be helping a lot.

I seem to still be experiencing a bit of drift but seems like only the G string, and it's less drift than before.

AND... It seems to be something with the string tree or maybe the nut as I can just give a little wiggle of the trem or even press the string on the other side of the nut and it's right back in tune.

I need more experimentation to nail it down... But it's a lot better.
 
Rhodes said:
https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_a..._Finishing_Papers/Mitchell_Abrasive_Cord.html

You could give this a try. I've used it to smooth out rough or burred nut slots and saddles. Especially on Floyd Rose type tremolos. This gets exactly where the string travels and makes it smooth as glass.
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I’ll take a look. The nut TUSQ and is lubed and it doesn't appear to be the cause but that stuff seems like it would not hurt.

My next step is to see how things work if I bypass the string tree.
 
unix-guy said:
I’ll take a look. The nut TUSQ and is lubed and it doesn't appear to be the cause but that stuff seems like it would not hurt.

My next step is to see how things work if I bypass the string tree.
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Ya never know. It has come in handy a few times when I was having a string bind at one end or the other.
 
unix-guy said:
I’ll take a look. The nut TUSQ and is lubed and it doesn't appear to be the cause but that stuff seems like it would not hurt.

My next step is to see how things work if I bypass the string tree.
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I found the string tree and the bridge itself were the hangups. Bypassing the string tree worked well, so I've ordered some Graphtech trees to see if that works. I have done and am continuing to do more bridge mods, but if you stick with the locking saddles none of that will matter to you :)
 
Dale LeClaire said:
I found the string tree and the bridge itself were the hangups. Bypassing the string tree worked well, so I've ordered some Graphtech trees to see if that works. I have done and am continuing to do more bridge mods, but if you stick with the locking saddles none of that will matter to you :)
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I put the Graphtech Tusq string trees on my the day i got it ( I had a spare set laying around ) and they helped before i ddi the tuners and locking saddles, but everything together its holds tuning a lot better than it did.
 
unix-guy said:
I was thinking about roller trees. You think the Tusq will be better?
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I looked at both, and decided to go Tusq, but it was a bit of a toss up for me. It was partly arbitrary, partly because I was a plastics guy in college so I'm biased... and mostly because I also ordered the matching saddles, so it settled a little OCD to have graph tech saddle, nut, and trees, lol. Honestly both are pretty inexpensive, if one doesn't work, I'll try the other and post the results here.

This is my "#2 guitar" at the moment, so I feel more free to experiment with it than others :)
 
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