Celestion F12-X200

[fuzzydude]

Are WGS speakers like Eminence? Bang for buck kind of speakers?

Exactly. Eminence being louder, but WGS sounding pretty good for FRFR.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

I am building the spec'd cabinet for this speaker. I have the wood (18mm Birch Ply) cut and ready for assembly but wasn't sure of the best approach for mounting the speaker to the cab. I want to mount on the inside but don't want to have the bolts come through from the front. Is there one option better than another between say t-nuts/captive nuts and threaded inserts? Also I guess I need the depth of these nuts/inserts to be less than 18mm so the bolt doesn't just go straight through?

 

[skolacki]

I am building the spec'd cabinet for this speaker. I have the wood (18mm Birch Ply) cut and ready for assembly but wasn't sure of the best approach for mounting the speaker to the cab. I want to mount on the inside but don't want to have the bolts come through from the front. Is there one option better than another between say t-nuts/captive nuts and threaded inserts? Also I guess I need the depth of these nuts/inserts to be less than 18mm so the bolt doesn't just go straight through?

I mounted mine on the front since I glued the back panel. T-nuts work fine. I think Celestion’s intent was to front mount, that’s what the the document shows. From what I recall the T-nuts were 1/2” or 13mm deep.

Edit: don’t try threaded inserts, the holes don’t have a lot of clearance or wood between the hole for the speakers and the insert. They’ll blow out. T-nuts are fine if the mounting holes are straight and you drive them straight in. Ideally you’ll set the t-nuts prior to assembly, easier to do them that way.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

I mounted mine on the front since I glued the back panel. T-nuts work fine. I think Celestion’s intent was to front mount, that’s what the the document shows. From what I recall the T-nuts were 1/2” or 13mm deep.

Edit: don’t try threaded inserts, the holes don’t have a lot of clearance or wood between the hole for the speakers and the insert. They’ll blow out. T-nuts are fine if the mounting holes are straight and you drive them straight in. Ideally you’ll set the t-nuts prior to assembly, easier to do them that way.

Thanks for the reply @skolacki, I'll probably go with t-nuts then. Was just a bit concerned that they aren't as flush as the threaded inserts (because I want to rear mount the speaker which will be bolted directly to the nuts). But come to think of it, maybe that isn't an issue as the speaker has a gasket on the front which will absorb any of the nut protruding out.

The pdf document doesn't mention to front or rear mount, although I can see the photo shows front mounted. That is probably if you intend to do as you did and glue the back. I've seen other examples in this thread with rear mounted also. I just prefer it that way as a) the speaker will be better sealed against the cabinet with the gasket, and b) I will be putting some grille cloth over the front so prefer it to be completely flat.

Did you use an wadding? And if so, anything in particular? Also, did you cover all internal surfaces with it?

 

[skolacki]

The flange on the t-nuts will be on the front if the speakers mounted to the back. If you have a forstner bit the size of the flange you can counterbore and have it flush. For the inside I used poly fill like what goes into pillows and quilts etc. I stapled it down on all surfaces except the baffle. For my grille I made a thin frame and stapled the cloth to that. It’s held on with magnets.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

The flange on the t-nuts will be on the front if the speakers mounted to the back. If you have a forstner bit the size of the flange you can counterbore and have it flush. For the inside I used poly fill like what goes into pillows and quilts etc. I stapled it down on all surfaces except the baffle. For my grille I made a thin frame and stapled the cloth to that. It’s held on with magnets.

Yeah, that makes sense. I read something just after posting above and realised that I would have to drill right through and put the t-nuts on the front (otherwise they can just fall out). Thanks for the tip on using a forstner bit, that'll be much easier.

I did consider using a frame for the grille but like the idea of the cloth being recessed a bit inside the cab edges. Suppose I could move the cab front in a little but don't want to mess with the acoustics spec and already have the wood cut so too late to make deeper. Don't know how much of a difference it would make.

How thick is your grille frame wood? Love the idea of the magnets to hold it in place, neodymium I assume? And quite like the idea of being able to change/repair the grille cloth more easily (and the cab front being a more snug fit i.e. no cloth wrapping the edges).

 

[skolacki]

Yeah, that makes sense. I read something just after posting above and realised that I would have to drill right through and put the t-nuts on the front (otherwise they can just fall out). Thanks for the tip on using a forstner bit, that'll be much easier.

I did consider using a frame for the grille but like the idea of the cloth being recessed a bit inside the cab edges. Suppose I could move the cab front in a little but don't want to mess with the acoustics spec and already have the wood cut so too late to make deeper. Don't know how much of a difference it would make.

How thick is your grille frame wood? Love the idea of the magnets to hold it in place, neodymium I assume? And quite like the idea of being able to change/repair the grille cloth more easily (and the cab front being a more snug fit i.e. no cloth wrapping the edges).

For the grille I used 12mm Baltic birch. I like it recessed myself so I designed my cab with the baffle set back far enough to recess it a bit. My cab is an oddball, the baffle is tilted back and there’s space under it to hang a rack amp. It’s heavy. Which is why I just bought a little Fender FR-10. Better for you to stick to your plan I think since it’s all cut. You’ll like your cab, they sound good.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

For the grille I used 12mm Baltic birch. I like it recessed myself so I designed my cab with the baffle set back far enough to recess it a bit. My cab is an oddball, the baffle is tilted back and there’s space under it to hang a rack amp. It’s heavy. Which is why I just bought a little Fender FR-10. Better for you to stick to your plan I think since it’s all cut. You’ll like your cab, they sound good.

That does sound a bit heavy. I have the axe and a gx3 (which is pretty damn heavy on its own) in a Gator 4U so keeps that weight separate. I did read on here a lot about the newer/lighter Class D 100w amps but wasn't convinced it would drive the F12-X200 well enough to try one out.

Can I ask one more question about your grille (think I might be sold on the idea now haha). Is your frame one sheet of 12mm birch ply and then cut out to leave the frame? Or is it (mitred?) strips nailed/screwed together? Promise, last question

 

[TSJMajesty]

That does sound a bit heavy. I have the axe and a gx3 (which is pretty damn heavy on its own) in a Gator 4U so keeps that weight separate. I did read on here a lot about the newer/lighter Class D 100w amps but wasn't convinced it would drive the F12-X200 well enough to try one out.

Can I ask one more question about your grille (think I might be sold on the idea now haha). Is your frame one sheet of 12mm birch ply and then cut out to leave the frame? Or is it (mitred?) strips nailed/screwed together? Promise, last question

PICTURES! Please.

 

[skolacki]

That does sound a bit heavy. I have the axe and a gx3 (which is pretty damn heavy on its own) in a Gator 4U so keeps that weight separate. I did read on here a lot about the newer/lighter Class D 100w amps but wasn't convinced it would drive the F12-X200 well enough to try one out.

Can I ask one more question about your grille (think I might be sold on the idea now haha). Is your frame one sheet of 12mm birch ply and then cut out to leave the frame? Or is it (mitred?) strips nailed/screwed together? Promise, last question

I put the grille together with pocket screws. Had to use the 12mm birch to hold staples, otherwise lighter would have been better.

Edit: You could just use a single piece of the thinner ply and cut it out but not sure how to fasten the cloth.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

Thanks so much for all the pointers @skolacki. Your cab and grille frame look great! (looks like that textured paint?)

I might try cutting the frame from one sheet of 12mm and see how that goes. I'll hopefully get started on the build this week and will take photos along the way. Thanks again

 

[skolacki]

Thanks so much for all the pointers @skolacki. Your cab and grille frame look great! (looks like that textured paint?)

I might try cutting the frame from one sheet of 12mm and see how that goes. I'll hopefully get started on the build this week and will take photos along the way. Thanks again

No problem I’m happy to be helpful. The paint is the textured paint. I rolled and brushed it on thick and dabbed it with plastic grocery bags to get that finish. Nowhere near as cool as tolex but it works.

 

[Mystic38]

That does sound a bit heavy. I have the axe and a gx3 (which is pretty damn heavy on its own) in a Gator 4U so keeps that weight separate. I did read on here a lot about the newer/lighter Class D 100w amps but wasn't convinced it would drive the F12-X200 well enough to try one out.

Can I ask one more question about your grille (think I might be sold on the idea now haha). Is your frame one sheet of 12mm birch ply and then cut out to leave the frame? Or is it (mitred?) strips nailed/screwed together? Promise, last question

I run two F12-x200 at 4 Ohm from a 200W class D module that is $125 retail.. there is not a better bang/buck in amps at the moment in my opinion.. These are the same manufacturers modules as used by Seymour Duncan

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...lass-d-module-amp-build-for-250-total.192002/

 

[skolacki]

I run two F12-x200 at 4 Ohm from a 200W class D module that is $125 retail.. there is not a better bang/buck in amps at the moment in my opinion.. These are the same manufacturers modules as used by Seymour Duncan

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...lass-d-module-amp-build-for-250-total.192002/

I remember that thread. Great post. I just bought a Fender FR-10 that is quiet so it probably has the fix in it. I’m on the waitlist for one of the new preamp boards from @WKSmith. So that gives me a spare preamp with eq. I don’t really need another FR speaker but building another one with the ICEpower amp is something I want to do sooner or later.

 

[allenma]

Sorry to butt in; I've shown these pics here before, thought they'd be of interest to the discussion. I'm very happy with the sound of these cabs, but look out for tweeter squeal. High-gain presets at higher volumes can be problematic. I've found I have to stay pretty far away from the cabs to avoid that awful screech, and it's not always easy to get that distance on typical club stages.

Enjoy your build!

 

[TheRedDevil]

My setup - just refer to my signature.