Can't get a good sound

J

Jinch0

Member
It's been a week with this thing and no matter what I do sounds thin, lifeless, and fake. So frustrating.
 
1poorplayer said:
What guitar and pickups are you using , and what sound or artist are you wanting to sound like ?
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Guitar - ibanez 1527 blaze custom bridge Air norton neck
Peavey rack tube power amp
Avatar 2x12 with Celestions 75's
Just want to get a good sound
 
Jinch0 said:
It's been a week with this thing and no matter what I do sounds thin, lifeless, and fake. So frustrating.
Click to expand...

It takes awhile and for some maybe never
The hardest thing to get head around is if you don't use power amp/ cab
Setup you will not get the amp in the room experience
That is a little off putting at first
Also I do find it to be very dark
Have you tried creating your own presets no effects. Just amp cab till you find something you like
Try the 5153 blue 50 change tubes to
EL34
I was playing that one last night
For me downloading others from axechange was not working great

**** sorry just saw post on setup
Is the peavy el 84 or 6l6
Do you have cab sim and power amps off global
Have you tried it through studio monitors if you have some
 
Jinch0 said:
Guitar - ibanez 1527 blaze custom bridge Air norton neck
Peavey rack tube power amp
Avatar 2x12 with Celestions 75's
Just want to get a good sound
Click to expand...

Sorry , someone else will have to assist you with your setup. I use the AX8 direct , so I'm using the internal amps and cabs , with no coloration of a guitar cab.
Someone here will likely be able to help you optimize the setup you have now , but IMO , in order to get the most of your unit , and hear what you're missing you owe it to yourself to run it into a mixer and listen to it using a good balanced set of headphones or monitor speakers , PA speakers , etc. Don't give up on this unit. It doesn't get any better.
 
If you're running into a tube power amp you will need to disable power amp sims or drastically lower the HF and LF resonance on the amp block speaker page. Otherwise you're doubling up on the coloration added by the power section which will probably sound thin and harsh. You don't mention whether or not you're using a cab block. If so, you should either remove it from your patch or disable them globally.
 
Make sure power amp modeling and cab modeling is turned off.

Create a new preset starting with only an amp block and choose an appropriate amp model. For clean sounds I really like the Double Verb, CAE Clean and Shiver Clean. For classic rock the 50 watt Plexi or Friedman BE models are a great place to start, and the USA Lead, Recto 1 Modern or 5153 are what I gravitate towards for heavy sounds. The models are very accurate so if you're familiar with dialing in a particular amp perhaps start with that.

Pay close attention to the bright, fat and bass cut switches. If you find your tone too dull, turn on the bright switch. Too loose in the low end, use the bass cut.

Once you've got a basic amp tone sorted, you can start to add effects.

The wiki and the forum (Yek's amp guide is a must) will help immensely with the steep learning curve. Best of luck.
 
Jinch0 said:
It's been a week with this thing and no matter what I do sounds thin, lifeless, and fake. So frustrating.
Click to expand...

I was in the same place just a few weeks ago. It took a lot longer than anticipated to get results that don't sound like you describe, I'm literally just this week getting over the '90% there' barrier. That last 10% is a b*tch.

Problem is we're all so different in terms of expectation and playing style its difficult to get a recommendation on what to tweak. I'll offer my solution but I can't guarantee it'll work for you.

First revelation was to use the tone controls and drive/master to set the amp feel, then the GEQ to set the 'tone' (with lots of toing and froing between). You need a lot less top end than you think, plus your ears get accustomed to the tone and fatigue can cause you to bias the EQ too bright or too dark. Having a reference track to refer to helps.

Second was discovering that Preamp Bias, Definition and Harmonics were the key to getting the pick attack feel and distortion quality right. Most amps feel 'clacky' to me with too much pick noise and 'thwack' on leads, reducing the definition (-2 to -4 usually) helped.

Bright switch Cap value, mess with it. Really has an important effect. Ditto the Power Amp MV Cap (I set it to 30-50pF on amps such as the Dizzy then reduce the top end with EQ with good results)

I'd say I'm now at about 94%, still work to do but there's light at the end of the tunnel now. With Q7 I expect things will improve a lot too.

(Note, there are no rules, I use the poweramp modelling with a tube amp as well as with a SS, turning off the PA modelling is one way to work it, but not the only way).
 
In the amp block turn up depth. That one did it for me. Without depth the crunch and high gain stuff sounded harsh and thin.
Use a PEQ after the amp boost the lows and mid and cut some of the high.
Check the LFR in the amp block : speaker tab....try to find the resonance of your cabinet. Start at say 80 and go up and see what it does....do use regular volume you normally play at.
 
Im going to return it. This thing is not for me . If down the road I try one from someone who knows to get a good sound out of it and I like the tone I'll buy another one.
 
The Fractal gear is not for eveyone. It's not plug and play, there is a distinct leraning curve and self education window to start. The units are usually setup to run direct for recording from the factory, and any other setup requires changes to I/O settings and changes to the amp/cab block based on what gear you are running it through. The AX8 without using AX8 Edit on a computer, is especially cumbersome, so I can see why some people would be turned off by it. But if you know what you are getting into, there is no other device on the market that can give you the deep editing and emulation of a FAS device. It's a shame, but hopefully FAS and it's engineers can make the next round of gear more user friendly, maybe have sepereate bootable configurations for standard user and advanced user.
 
Jinch0 said:
Im going to return it. This thing is not for me . If down the road I try one from someone who knows to get a good sound out of it and I like the tone I'll buy another one.
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If you return it , means nothing to me. I will say , I still own around $12,000 in amps , and have sold another $12-15,000.00 worth along the way , and I haven't touched any since I got my AX8 a year ago. Direct is where it's at with this baby. I tried line6 back in the day in the studio and went back to mic'd amps , cause modelling was not good enough. 2 nights ago , I dialed in the best direct presets I've ever played or heard in my life.
To each his own. If it doesn't fit your situation , it's understandable. Good luck. I sure love mine !
 
I had just added a passive GEQ and a PEQ to my first preset yesterday. It is a work in progress. I was very happy with the results. Thanks everyone for the pointers on this thread. Now I have other tweaks to look forward to trying.

To the OP, some folks have used AX8 into their amp's loop to further adress some of your issues. But in the end this unit shines direct. FWIW the Fractal factory patches provide a much better starting point than other products I have tried.
 
I wanna thank everyone for their help. It's a shame ax8 didn't worked for me because I wanted to like this amazing product. I see myself owning another one if try one that is propertly setup and I like the tone and feel. Once again thank you for your help.
 
Still you will have learn how to use it if you buy another one in future, this is a modeler of effects and amps that behave and sound ike in real life does. With pros and cons.
An example of my experience, I am someone who has never own nice tubes amps like 99% of users here, just I have a Marshall AVT 20, just ECC83 tube in the preamp hehe. So I have no previous experience with the real counterpart of that.
Then I bought an Boss Gt 100 and I returned because it lost the comparison against Amplitube 3. For run that sofware in high specs I needed a powerful pc, so I discovered the Ax8 and invest the money that was going for a new pc. Best decision ever.
I start on july and since soon I got good sounds, from fremen mainly and the forum and tweaking from there and also tryng to understand the reason of the tweaks done. Read the manual and see some videos about the unit it is a must, it is the price to pay for understand that complex device, but it worth the effort.
As an example, in the last month, I have discover something so important to get the good tone like cut the low freq to around 100Hz and high freq to 7000-12000Khz. For me is like omg how the hell I was without know that, and still the sound was amazing. Even some defaults presets started to be usable doing that, before almost any.Another good trick for use the pedal drive, increase more the level (from 5 to 7 ) rather than the drive knob.
And by last FRFR. Good luck
 
I was in the same boat as you were. I bought an AX8 and sold it because I told myself it was too complicated and couldn't get the sounds I wanted right out of the box. Then I decided to give it another shot and I tried it with power amps, studio monitors, combo amp and finally settled on the Mission Gemini 1 1x12. All this time I read the forums and ask questions and finally got a hold on how to use this thing. I am getting some great sounds out of it and have been very happy. Like everyone here has said it is not a plug and play multi effects box but when you do know somewhat how to use it it is an excellent piece of gear.
 
Jinch0 said:
It's been a week with this thing and no matter what I do sounds thin, lifeless, and fake. So frustrating.
Click to expand...
I feel your pain...I have had mine for 2 weeks now and struggle with it on a daily basis.. I run it thru the fx return of my Boogie MKIV into a recto cab, turn off all of the IR/Cab sim and poweramp globally, sounds "Meh"..after spending hours on hours on this... I liked this set up through a MarshallJCM800 cab at rehearsal the other night. I must say, was far more impressed with that cab (Maybe V30's are just too harsh? weird..) I'm dialing in a high gain tone that is articulate and pleasant (Think Periphery meets Sevendust, yet still sounds KILLER for High octane Hendrix Allman Bros)..I tried the direct thing for recording (though I won't be doing much of that) and thru an acoustic amp (Poor man's frfr) AX8 in either of these formats shined, although most of the presets are "ok" at best, really shocked how bad the Freidman BE and HBE ampresets sound..I hear others on Youtube, sound great, mine sounds terrible.. ..Immediately plugged back into my Boogie and Recto cab a few minutes ago, bright, unispiring mush...Tweaking and tweaking, just sounds thin and digital..so...I am most likely returning it as I am not going to go spend another $1-1500 for poweramp and cab or FRFR....Didn't realize it was going to be such a uphill battle to dial this thing in for live loud with the band...Frustration outweighs the inspiration by a long shot. Obviously this thing is awesome and a ton of people are using it and get great results, but probably not for my applications? I will say this...everyone on this forum is super helpful, and same with the folks over @ FA...I am 99% sure I have determined Im a plug and play guy (must be getting old LOL) If you arre willing to put in some time and have a lot of patience, and or are ready to go full FRFR, AX8 is killer. Dammit
 
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The most important adjustment to make, when going into a tube amp and guitar cab, is to turn down the hi/lo res n the speaker section of the amp block. I personally turn them all the way down/off and get the most responsive results.
 
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