Can you control input gain on fx loop?

[pauliusmm]

I never used FX Loop block for effects, so im a noob here.
I want to have a delay pedal in FX loop and i want to control the input gain to the delay effect via expression pedal.
Is this possible?

 

[pauliusmm]

Also i don't get how do i set the levels so i get the same wet/dry ratio as if i was plugging guitar->axe fx-> my delay(H9). It seems that in the loop it sound different than in the front. Not talking about tone here, but talking about wet/dry mix.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

i want to control the input gain to the delay effect via expression pedal.
Is this possible?

The input fader on the effects loop can be saved per scene, but it doesn't have a modifier or midi continuous controller number. The only way you could try this, could be to place a volume block on the grid and into the effects loop block. Remember, it doesn't matter which grid path the effects loop is sitting in, it receives signal from all 4 grid paths. SO, you can create a preset with everything on grid path 2, and split a shunt off to grid path 3 for the volume block, then shunt the output of the volume block into the effects loop. Then go into the effects loop and send path 3 to your H9. You can turn the #2 gain off inside the effects loop if you want, or experiment with the mix of it with #3.

You could set the H9 to 100% wet if you like (experiment here).

Now, you should be able to attach a modifier to the volume block, and control the signal going into the H9 that way.

An easier work around, would be to control the wet/dry mix inside the H9. I'm sure the H9 has a continuous controller assignment for wet/dry mix, and you could simply control that with your Liquid Foot.

 

[javajunkie]

A good place to start is to review 5.8 of the manual of the FX Loop block to get get a better idea of how the block is laid out. Make sure your have your ins/out in the IO-Audio menu set to mono/stereo depending on how you have things set up.

Just remember the mixer sections is your send to the effect (for D/A converstion on the Axe-fx), and the Mix page is your Return (after A/D conversion on the Axe-fx).

So we have fx loop Send - D/A conversion - Axe-fx Output 2 level - H9 - Axe-fx Input 2 level - A/D conversion - Fx loop return .

Three important things you want:
1. A good strong signal w/o clipping to H9.
2. A good string signal from the H9 to the Axe-fx w/o clipping
3. optional - When the fx loop is bypassed should be the same as H9 bypassed (if the h9 is bypassed the should be no boost or cut when the Fx loop engaged/disengaged).

Since it sounds like you are sending the signal after the amp, you level will be plenty hot. You just need to be sure you do not clip the inputs of the H9. Adjust the out 2 level up until clipping start and then turn down from there (give your self enough headroom that you never clip the in of the H9).

Go to the loudest preset you can find on the H9. Adjust the input 2 levels on the Axe-fx so that it never clips input 2. You can adjust the level of the fx loop when it is on/off with the level parameter in the fx loop block or in the preset level of the H9.

Now to get things so that they are the same when the H9 bypassed (fx loop on) and the Fx loop is bypassed will probably require a little tweaking. Before the amp block is easy, just basically leave the Fx block at default and output 2 at full.
After the amp block the signal is usually much higher. I've taken to lowering the amp block levels in all my presets to compensate for some of this and give me more headroom, but that is a lot of work.

If fx loop bypass is louder than h9 bypass (fx loop on), you may want to increase out2 level to try and match (watch out for clipping). If you can't get there w/o clipping lower the level either before the fx loop block (amp block level is a good place) or the main parameter of the fx loop block.

If the fx loop is quieter, lower the out2 level until they match. you may want to increase the input 2 level to compensate for the reduction in signal.


to have things mix like guitar-axe-fx-h9, place the fx loop in series like you would any other block. Place the fx loop block toward the end of the chain (after amp/cab).

To control the level into H9 like you would in gain. The main level, or row gain in the mixer section of the Fx loop block would be best. I don't remember if the are modifiable though. I don't think they are. Attaching an expression pedal to output 2 would work though. Otherwise, you are looking at more complicated routing to do that. either that or use your H9 and midi to accomplish that.

 

[pauliusmm]

what if my grid looks like this? How do i mix the rows?

 

[javajunkie]

Set the Bypass mode of the delay block on top of the FX loop to Mute In.
That way you preserve the wet/dry mix of H9.

 

[pauliusmm]

i mean how do i mix rows in FX loop block. lets assume FX loop block is in row 4, where it is now or instead of looper.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

i mean how do i mix rows in FX loop block. lets assume FX loop block is in row 4, where it is now or instead of looper.

I looked at the screen shot of your preset. And my answer is the same, even if you put the effects loop where the looper block is.

Because of your use of the Send and Return blocks, your preset is really just using one grid line, except in the spot where that delay block goes around the effects loop.

You probably only have audio coming into grid 2 or grid 4 of your effects loop block. To test this, open the effects loop block and turn down the individual grid gains for 1,2,3, and 4. You're either going to cut your signal when you turn the #2 gain, or probably when you turn the #4 gain off inside the effects loop.

The only way to use the mixer inside the effects loop would be to shunt adjacent grid blocks into the effects loop.

For instance, you place a compressor, wah, drive, and amp on grid two. On the 5th row of your grid you place effects in parallel: chorus in grid 1, row 5, flanger in grid 2, row 5, phaser in grid 3 row five, with a reverb after it in row 6, pitch in grid 4, row 5, with another reverb after it. In row 7, of grid 2, you shunt all of those parallel block outputs backinto the input of the effects loop block that you place in grid 2, row 7. It would work the same regardless of which grid you place the effects loop, in row 7, provided the output shunts of those 4 parallel effects chains all go into the effects loop block.

Now you can control the mixture of your chorus, flange, phase/reverb, and pitch/reverb with the panning and mix knobs inside the effects loop block.

If you were to "go around" everything or not use grid 2 for an effect, so that your amp is the thing going into the effects loop on grid 2, you'd have unaffected amp in the grid 2 position of the effects loop, and chorus, phase, and pitch on the other matrixes of the effect loop block.

 

[pauliusmm]

Thanks Java and Rodzim,
One more question: where do i set front panel Out 2 knob? It is also controlling fx loop send?

 

[rodzimguitar68]

I leave mine turn all the way up. I go into the global 2 master eq and turn down the gain to -12

 

[javajunkie]

I leave mine up all the way as well (I have some presets with fx loop before amp others after). To keep clipping issues down and allow for unity gain with my effects in the fx loop, i lowered all my amp block levels by ~-10db. I was running fairly hot prior to that.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

Me too, except that my effects loop block is always after my amp and cab blocks. The default amp level is -12db which is too hot for my effects loop gear. I lower to -22 as a starting point and adjust from there to maintain unity. The input fader in my effects loop block is typically at -0- and my return level is typically 8-10. I leave bypass set to thru. And even though I never bypass the loop, I do bypass it and engage it during programming to ensure there will be no change in volume if I should need to bypass it.

So, my recipe for sending a guitar-like signal through my effects loop gear, that works for me is: global output 1 master gain: -6db, global output 2 master gain: -12db, amp block levels -23 to -15 depending on gaininess of that amp, effects loop block send at -0-db and return level at +8 to +10 db depending on how many pieces of outboard gear are active and contributing to stacked gain returning to the loop.

I use the utility monitors to check for unity for in 1 and out 1, and unity of in 2 and out 2. With the understanding that signal shown for in/out 2 are lower than the levels shown for in/out 1, mainly because my in 2 effects loop return goes out through out 1 also, so out 1 is always louder, because it is the sum of global 1 and global 2 in essence.