Can we put tube pre amp after Output from Fm9 ?

Loutchos

Loutchos

Member
Hi,

I’m wondering, does anyone put a Tube pre amp or a Tube DI after the Output 1 from his FM9 ? And send it to a P.A ?

Best,
 
You’re already getting simulated tubes in the amp modeling. Adding a tube preamp following your output will add more dynamic and tone coloration. Honestly it just isn’t necessary. Could you do it? Sure. If it sounds good to you, go with it. But I would encourage you to do a blind A/B so you know you aren’t fooling yourself into thinking it’s better. Make sure your volumes are the same in the test.

If you want more “studio” feel, I would add a studio compressor or multi-comp somewhere near the end of your signal. I add a multi-comp after the cab block. This gives me a bit of “glue” and dynamic balance without having to add more outboard gear. Our brains have a tendency to make us believe that more is better sometimes. But I’ve always found that the simplest option is generally the best in a live context. More gear = more connections = more things that can fail and screw up your gig. KISS.
 
With line level stuff like modelers and synths/keys it's really not necessary unless you want a specific EQ or saturation from a particular mic pre. A tube preamp will not make the Fractal sound/feel more like a tube amp (Fractal already does that perfectly fine), it will just change the EQ and add saturation, which you can already do in the mic preamp section of the cab block.
 
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If I was looking for real tubes I would use the FM9 in 4cm with a tube amp.
Although I have many tube amps, I pretty much use the FM9 , cause it just sounds so GOOD 😊
 
Rather than connect another piece of gear and potential failure point in your signal chain, why not use the preamp modeling in the cab block? Isn't that exactly what it's for?

With Dyna-cabs my main gigging preset right now hovers around 67% (turbo version) so adding some mic pre sim would be totally doable. In a studio I might play with that a bit but have not bothered as of yet, maybe you can try that first and see if it gives you the colour you're looking for.
 
How would that even work since the signal has departed the unit at the Output? Honest question and wondering if I'm missing something here. Or are you talking about a physical preamp?
 
Loutchos said:
I always have trouble on stage with my sound when it’s loud. I miss presence of a natural tube amp
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In this case, I would check the quality of the monitors or in-ear headphones.
The choice of speaker cabinet very important in a classic setup. So it is in the FRFR world.
Again, the best is just good enough. Good studio monitors are also essential when setting up presets at home.
I absolutely trust my PSI AUDIO A21. A very phase linear box without DSP.
 
Loutchos said:
I always have trouble on stage with my sound when it’s loud. I miss presence of a natural tube amp
Click to expand...
Have you explored some different ways to get a little more of that feel out of the Fractal? I find I like a bit of input dynamics. It feels like it gives me a little more of that front end tube amp compression or something. I'm not at all sure that's what it's doing but it feels a little more tube-like to me.

As Chris said, you can run the signal out of the FM9, through a tube preamp, and into the PA. I'm not sure that will get you what you're looking for--then again, I'm not sure it won't.

I doubt you'll find people who have tried this so maybe just go ahead and try it for yourself and then report back so people can learn from your experience.

More commonly, people looking for some extra tube feel run through tube power amps and into cabs on stage, and send a different output to the PA. Those tube power amps are typically either the power section of a tube amp or a standalone tube power amp. That can give you some real tube interaction for your stage sound.

You could then mic the cab. In that case you're sacrificing a bit of the FM9's functionality (cab modeling, ability to run straight to PA) but it's certainly possible. You could also run a reactive load after the power amp and send the line out from that to the PA. Then you don't even need a real cab.

There are definitely ways to put some real tubs in your signal chain. As you can tell from the posts above, many people feel the Fractal does a great job of modeling tube interaction so they don't think it's necessary. That doesn't mean you wouldn't prefer it though.

Lots of options. Sometimes it takes some experimentation to find what works best for you.

Edit: what @Keybi said is very relevant. What is your PA setup? How are you monitoring at home/not through that PA? Can you better describe the issues you're having with the sound through the PA when loud?
 
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Also, make sure you’re creating your presets at gig volume. If your sound feels overly bright or brittle, this may be your issue.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
I’m assuming to “warm it up”. Because “tubes”.

This was kind of a fad in the early days of modeling.
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The ironic thing about this is that tube preamps don't really add warmth the way people seem to think they do. If you're pushing the tubes into distortion, they make the sound brighter by adding more overtones (literally adding HF content).

Somewhat competing with that statement, a lot of tube gear (mostly amps, much less so preamps) also rolls of extreme highs at least partially due to very low damping factor.

Since we're already (most likely) distorting the signal with the guitar amp model, that probably isn't what he wants. Adjusting the low-pass filter in the cab block is likely to do what he wants....at least, that's what I thought before I saw the word presence in this:

Loutchos said:
I always have trouble on stage with my sound when it’s loud. I miss presence of a natural tube amp
Click to expand...

What, specifically, do you mean by "presence" here?

My initial guess is that you need to bump treble and lower the low-pass in the cab block. But...that depends on what you mean by that word.
 
Deadpool_25 said:
Have you explored some different ways to get a little more of that feel out of the Fractal? I find I like a bit of input dynamics. It feels like it gives me a little more of that front end tube amp compression or something. I'm not at all sure that's what it's doing but it feels a little more tube-like to me.

As Chris said, you can run the signal out of the FM9, through a tube preamp, and into the PA. I'm not sure that will get you what you're looking for--then again, I'm not sure it won't.

I doubt you'll find people who have tried this so maybe just go ahead and try it for yourself and then report back so people can learn from your experience.

More commonly, people looking for some extra tube feel run through tube power amps and into cabs on stage, and send a different output to the PA. Those tube power amps are typically either the power section of a tube amp or a standalone tube power amp. That can give you some real tube interaction for your stage sound.

You could then mic the cab. In that case you're sacrificing a bit of the FM9's functionality (cab modeling, ability to run straight to PA) but it's certainly possible. You could also run a reactive load after the power amp and send the line out from that to the PA. Then you don't even need a real cab.

There are definitely ways to put some real tubs in your signal chain. As you can tell from the posts above, many people feel the Fractal does a great job of modeling tube interaction so they don't think it's necessary. That doesn't mean you wouldn't prefer it though.

Lots of options. Sometimes it takes some experimentation to find what works best for you.

Edit: what @Keybi said is very relevant. What is your PA setup? How are you monitoring at home/not through that PA? Can you better describe the issues you're having with the sound through the PA when loud?
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Thanks all for suggestions and advice, i appreciate ! Very nice community in this forum 👌🤘

I tried a lot of things in my preset ! Just today i did a nice sound only with my jazzmaster plug straight into the fractal with no amp no cab. Only reverb and delay in parallel. Parametric EQ cut the low at 130. Cut the high at 5000.

I noticed that when i put an amp and a cab i can’t Eq it the way i want.. too much high end..
and i loose the natural Eq i found in a real amp.

My output 2 goes to my yamaha dxr 10 that i use as monitor on stage and output 1 frontofhouse.

best!
 
Too much high end is a common complaint actually. It likely has more to do with using monitors/studio speakers as opposed to using real cabinets. Try using aggressive high cuts in the cab block. See if you can cut too much high end then try to bring it back in a bit.
 
Loutchos said:
Thanks all for suggestions and advice, i appreciate ! Very nice community in this forum 👌🤘

I tried a lot of things in my preset ! Just today i did a nice sound only with my jazzmaster plug straight into the fractal with no amp no cab. Only reverb and delay in parallel. Parametric EQ cut the low at 130. Cut the high at 5000.

I noticed that when i put an amp and a cab i can’t Eq it the way i want.. too much high end..
and i loose the natural Eq i found in a real amp.

My output 2 goes to my yamaha dxr 10 that i use as monitor on stage and output 1 frontofhouse.

best!
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Okay, the DXR10.
I have two of them.
The treble range depends on the volume, at moderate volumes everything is fine, but at higher volumes the tweeter becomes too dominant and extremely annoying. Some warmth in the lower midrange is also missing, that's why Hi Gain works, but classic/vintage doesn't.
 
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