Calling All Non-FRFR Guitar Cab Users

paulmapp8306 said:
So either Im not very picky, Im missing something, or just hit on the magic parameters through playing.

I'm opting for choice number 3. Bear in mind, I have had my Axe for one month and you have had yours for 14. I'm sure I will catch up; but the purpose of these boards is to get some insight from others on how to accomplish this, so please don't get frustrated by my noobie questions and thank you for your comments regarding the advanced amp settings.
 
markus said:
Have you tried running the Axe through the FX loop of the Tremoverb? That might let you see if there is a problem with the 50/50's tubes. Mark

Not yet....but it's definitely on the itinerary. Thanks for the suggestion. Just to clarify, when I use the effects loop, I can completely bypass the Tremoverb's preamp?
 
In theory, when you run output from the Axe to the Mesa's FX return, you should only be hitting the Mesa's poweramp.

Mark
 
The Shredding Hand said:
Fellow forum member Mark Day (member name: Samhill) uses the ART SLA-2 and a guitar cab and he gets killer high gain tones. Search for some of his posts here and there are links to tons of youtube videos he has done. This man has the high gain sounds nailed!

I've seen Mark's vids on youtube and they are sick. In fact, he's the reason i bought my Axe in the first place....but then again, a youtube video ain't exactly of the highest fidelity, so who knows? Cron's post kinda scares me that I may never achieve my sound...but, I guess I will just persevere and try some of the other suggestions I've heard.

I should get my hands on that Crest CA-6 power amp on Thursday and I'll see if that makes a difference. I really hate that this $2K peice of equipment is causing me to go out and spend additional money to get to the place I was before I started; but for me, the whole reason I got the Axe was to not have to tap dance to change sounds, to have greater flexibility and to save my back with lighter equipment. It definitely achieves those goals; but if the sound ain't there, none of that matters.
 
markus said:
In theory, when you run output from the Axe to the Mesa's FX return, you should only be hitting the Mesa's poweramp.

Mark

Not sure i understand that because I've used the loop before and the channel's tone controls are still active. Wouldn't the tone controls be governed by the preamp?
 
set theorist said:
[quote="The Shredding Hand":2diydcmh]Fellow forum member Mark Day (member name: Samhill) uses the ART SLA-2 and a guitar cab and he gets killer high gain tones. Search for some of his posts here and there are links to tons of youtube videos he has done. This man has the high gain sounds nailed!

I've seen Mark's vids on youtube and they are sick. In fact, he's the reason i bought my Axe in the first place....but then again, a youtube video ain't exactly of the highest fidelity, so who knows? Cron's post kinda scares me that I may never achieve my sound...but, I guess I will just persevere and try some of the other suggestions I've heard.

I should get my hands on that Crest CA-6 power amp on Thursday and I'll see if that makes a difference. I really hate that this $2K peice of equipment is causing me to go out and spend additional money to get to the place I was before I started; but for me, the whole reason I got the Axe was to not have to tap dance to change sounds, to have greater flexibility and to save my back with lighter equipment. It definitely achieves those goals; but if the sound ain't there, none of that matters.[/quote:2diydcmh]

I've heard Marks presets in person and the youtube vids are a pretty accurate representation (the ones with the Edirol as the recording device). Just don't forget the other half of that tone equation... the guitar and pickups.
 
set theorist said:
[quote="The Shredding Hand":1x7gsev1]Fellow forum member Mark Day (member name: Samhill) uses the ART SLA-2 and a guitar cab and he gets killer high gain tones. Search for some of his posts here and there are links to tons of youtube videos he has done. This man has the high gain sounds nailed!

I've seen Mark's vids on youtube and they are sick. In fact, he's the reason i bought my Axe in the first place....but then again, a youtube video ain't exactly of the highest fidelity, so who knows? Cron's post kinda scares me that I may never achieve my sound...but, I guess I will just persevere and try some of the other suggestions I've heard.

I should get my hands on that Crest CA-6 power amp on Thursday and I'll see if that makes a difference. I really hate that this $2K peice of equipment is causing me to go out and spend additional money to get to the place I was before I started; but for me, the whole reason I got the Axe was to not have to tap dance to change sounds, to have greater flexibility and to save my back with lighter equipment. It definitely achieves those goals; but if the sound ain't there, none of that matters.[/quote:1x7gsev1]

Id like to know how the crest sounds compared to the Art.

I put my axe through the Orange Thunderverbs loop return today. It did seem more fizzy, less middly and more full. It was more noticable when I went back to the Art as opposed to when I went to the Orange. Having said that, I could get very closed by using the global graphic out. Basicallt adding 0.8 db at 125 an 250 hz, 0.2 at 500hz, 0.8db at 4k and 2.0 at 8k. I also cut at 1k bu 1.0 db and at 2k by 0.3db. It wasnt quite there but much closer.

Thing was, when I played along to the band later with these global settings, I found myself wanting to re-eq my patches. The sound was more lively and less miidy and flat - BUT it was now a little harsh and flabby in places. The sound ended up somewhere between my original sounds through the Art and through the Orange.

When I tried a differnt cab (the orange 2x12 rather than my VHT 2x12) My original global settings actually sounded better - though it still needed the 8k boost. Im thinking that while the Art has a different feel to a tube PA (at least one in a real amp) the cab being used makes at least as much difference again. The magic combo would seem to be the right patch settings, the right Power amp and the right Cab - BUT - very good results can be obtained with only 2 of these in place. BVy that I mean with the right cab for you and good patch settings, the PAs deficiencies can be overcome. Similarly with the right PA a not so good cab can be overcome. If both PA and Cab are perfect the patch settings are not so critical.

Despite this I now find myself wanting a new PA !!!!! however, It has to be light and 1U. This rules out valve PAs, so Im only going to replace my Art IF I can find a 1U SS PA that is nearer in sound/feel to a tube PA. If anyone can chip in here great - but I susspect not. If a 2U SS PA is better then that would be usefull as I could try one - then try to find a similar sounding 1U unit.

The only 1U options I know of with sufficient power (im looking for 300W into 8 Ohms min) re the powersoft amps - which are expensive. I dont know where to try one though. Lab Gruppen do a 100W amo but thats not beefy enough. The New Carvin isnt avilable in the UK so thats out (and a little under powered). There are some cheaper models but I susspect there not actually as good as the Art - Though I have a 2U Alesis 100W amp kicking around and it acxtually sounded closer to the heads Power section than the Art. Maybe a cheap on would do?
 
set theorist said:
[quote="The Shredding Hand":3jqe4n54]Fellow forum member Mark Day (member name: Samhill) uses the ART SLA-2 and a guitar cab and he gets killer high gain tones. Search for some of his posts here and there are links to tons of youtube videos he has done. This man has the high gain sounds nailed!

I've seen Mark's vids on youtube and they are sick. In fact, he's the reason i bought my Axe in the first place....but then again, a youtube video ain't exactly of the highest fidelity, so who knows? Cron's post kinda scares me that I may never achieve my sound...but, I guess I will just persevere and try some of the other suggestions I've heard.

I should get my hands on that Crest CA-6 power amp on Thursday and I'll see if that makes a difference. I really hate that this $2K peice of equipment is causing me to go out and spend additional money to get to the place I was before I started; but for me, the whole reason I got the Axe was to not have to tap dance to change sounds, to have greater flexibility and to save my back with lighter equipment. It definitely achieves those goals; but if the sound ain't there, none of that matters.[/quote:3jqe4n54]

Well dont be discouraged..... I really dislike Mark Day's tone and could never understand the fuss ppl make about it. To me it sounds solidstate and compressed and more of a hair metal vibe..... no "girth" in the sound. Everyone raves about his sound cept me so maybe my ears are shot?
 
Cron said:
set theorist said:
[quote="The Shredding Hand":663pg3op]Fellow forum member Mark Day (member name: Samhill) uses the ART SLA-2 and a guitar cab and he gets killer high gain tones. Search for some of his posts here and there are links to tons of youtube videos he has done. This man has the high gain sounds nailed!

I've seen Mark's vids on youtube and they are sick. In fact, he's the reason i bought my Axe in the first place....but then again, a youtube video ain't exactly of the highest fidelity, so who knows? Cron's post kinda scares me that I may never achieve my sound...but, I guess I will just persevere and try some of the other suggestions I've heard.

I should get my hands on that Crest CA-6 power amp on Thursday and I'll see if that makes a difference. I really hate that this $2K peice of equipment is causing me to go out and spend additional money to get to the place I was before I started; but for me, the whole reason I got the Axe was to not have to tap dance to change sounds, to have greater flexibility and to save my back with lighter equipment. It definitely achieves those goals; but if the sound ain't there, none of that matters.

Well dont be discouraged..... I really dislike Mark Day's tone and could never understand the fuss ppl make about it. To me it sounds solidstate and compressed and more of a hair metal vibe..... no "girth" in the sound. Everyone raves about his sound cept me so maybe my ears are shot?[/quote:663pg3op]

Quite the contrary, I think you have an ear based on your discripiton of Marks tone. The thing is Mark likes that sound and he's ok with it... 80's Metal for sure. It does have a bite to it that is fun to play with but after a wile it tend's to get old unless you like to work in that medium which Mark appears to. Not trying to defend Mark just the ability of the Axe to satify so many different styels of music.

As to the Crest Audio I think it will tend to be a bit flatter than the ART and pack quite the wallop when you turn it up... Watch your speakers :shock: . The main problem that you will have is moving it, @ 44 Lbs it's nearly 3 times heaver than the SLA-2 but you get twice the power.
 
It's threads like this that make me second guess going ahead with purchasing an Axe-Fx. I'm usually in a more classic rock type thing but I do like to play around with higher gain stuff.
 
Bird said:
It's threads like this that make me second guess going ahead with purchasing an Axe-Fx. I'm usually in a more classic rock type thing but I do like to play around with higher gain stuff.


I understand your reservations; but also bear in mind, people who post to message boards are typically in search of.... or second guessing (me included), So you can't really expect to hear from the happy owners here.
 
set theorist said:
Bird said:
It's threads like this that make me second guess going ahead with purchasing an Axe-Fx. I'm usually in a more classic rock type thing but I do like to play around with higher gain stuff.


I understand your reservations; but also bear in mind, people who post to message boards are typically in search of.... or second guessing (me included), So you can't really expect to hear from the happy owners here.

True with many forums. I'm for Dweezil and Steve Stevens to call with their assessments..... so far no phone call :cry:
 
Well,

i tracked down a used Marshall 9100 yesterday. it sounded almost identical to when using the PA of the Orange Thunderverb. It was indeed more beedy and full without the slight muddiness of the Art SLA. It was more open too - with more top end zing. The tone was actually better through the Art (well more like both a Blackstar and Messa that was in the shops demo room) as the Marshall was too bright. that will be solved with patch tweeking though. The actual feel, 3d and dynamics were better through the Marshall.

On the down side, the Marshall is 3U, heavey, noisy (the fan at least) had crackly pots and coroded (slightly) knobs. It was well over priced. The owner (who the sho was selling for) wanted £500 apparently. Daft as the Last one on EBay went for £300 - the one before for £400 and one on a guitarist Forum for £340.

A new VHT 2:50:2 is currently £1250 though - which is expensive.

the next thing to do is to try top quality SS power amps. this should tell me if the Arts more 2d sound and lack of dynamics (compared to the valve PAs) is down to the relative cheap SLA - or just down to SS amps in general. If the good quality amps sound more like the valve amp - I will still go that way due to the weight and reliability of SS amps over Valve ones.

Powersofts are 1U so a possible, but hard to get here in Norther Ireland. i do have a line on a Lab Gruppen i900 though. I know a local disco shop that can get one from a distributor to demo. thats the next move. If its good, I may get that and mount it in its own 2U rack. If not its try and find a used valve PA. Preferably a VHT, then a messa and last a Marshall. I know Carvin, Peavey and Engl do valve power amps too - BUT - Ive not seen them used in the UK, and dont know price or distributio for new ones here.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Well,

i tracked down a used Marshall 9100 yesterday. it sounded almost identical to when using the PA of the Orange Thunderverb. It was indeed more beedy and full without the slight muddiness of the Art SLA. It was more open too - with more top end zing. The tone was actually better through the Art (well more like both a Blackstar and Messa that was in the shops demo room) as the Marshall was too bright. that will be solved with patch tweeking though. The actual feel, 3d and dynamics were better through the Marshall.

On the down side, the Marshall is 3U, heavey, noisy (the fan at least) had crackly pots and coroded (slightly) knobs. It was well over priced. The owner (who the sho was selling for) wanted £500 apparently. Daft as the Last one on EBay went for £300 - the one before for £400 and one on a guitarist Forum for £340.

A new VHT 2:50:2 is currently £1250 though - which is expensive.

the next thing to do is to try top quality SS power amps. this should tell me if the Arts more 2d sound and lack of dynamics (compared to the valve PAs) is down to the relative cheap SLA - or just down to SS amps in general. If the good quality amps sound more like the valve amp - I will still go that way due to the weight and reliability of SS amps over Valve ones.

Powersofts are 1U so a possible, but hard to get here in Norther Ireland. i do have a line on a Lab Gruppen i900 though. I know a local disco shop that can get one from a distributor to demo. thats the next move. If its good, I may get that and mount it in its own 2U rack. If not its try and find a used valve PA. Preferably a VHT, then a messa and last a Marshall. I know Carvin, Peavey and Engl do valve power amps too - BUT - Ive not seen them used in the UK, and dont know price or distributio for new ones here.

I'd be interested in your findings concerning better quality SS amps vs tube vs art. Be sure to post it here.

Did you try changing the voicing switch on the marshall power amp? One of the voicings is quite a bit duller than the other. From what ive read the marshall power amps arent in the same league as VHT and Mesa (2:90,2:100, strategy) so if you are liking the results with the marshall I can only imagine it to be even greater with the above mentioned brands.
 
Bird said:
It's threads like this that make me second guess going ahead with purchasing an Axe-Fx. I'm usually in a more classic rock type thing but I do like to play around with higher gain stuff.

Don't let one thread skew your perseption of the Axe, It does the classic rock thing also... Those are the tones I like to mess around with and it does them quit well. Have you seen the Plexi vid Hunter does using a VHT 2/50/2 and Bogner 412 cab... Sounds pretty real to my ears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArxQRfsE ... L&index=87
 
Cron said:
paulmapp8306 said:
Well,

i tracked down a used Marshall 9100 yesterday. it sounded almost identical to when using the PA of the Orange Thunderverb. It was indeed more beedy and full without the slight muddiness of the Art SLA. It was more open too - with more top end zing. The tone was actually better through the Art (well more like both a Blackstar and Messa that was in the shops demo room) as the Marshall was too bright. that will be solved with patch tweeking though. The actual feel, 3d and dynamics were better through the Marshall.

On the down side, the Marshall is 3U, heavey, noisy (the fan at least) had crackly pots and coroded (slightly) knobs. It was well over priced. The owner (who the sho was selling for) wanted £500 apparently. Daft as the Last one on EBay went for £300 - the one before for £400 and one on a guitarist Forum for £340.

A new VHT 2:50:2 is currently £1250 though - which is expensive.

the next thing to do is to try top quality SS power amps. this should tell me if the Arts more 2d sound and lack of dynamics (compared to the valve PAs) is down to the relative cheap SLA - or just down to SS amps in general. If the good quality amps sound more like the valve amp - I will still go that way due to the weight and reliability of SS amps over Valve ones.

Powersofts are 1U so a possible, but hard to get here in Norther Ireland. i do have a line on a Lab Gruppen i900 though. I know a local disco shop that can get one from a distributor to demo. thats the next move. If its good, I may get that and mount it in its own 2U rack. If not its try and find a used valve PA. Preferably a VHT, then a messa and last a Marshall. I know Carvin, Peavey and Engl do valve power amps too - BUT - Ive not seen them used in the UK, and dont know price or distributio for new ones here.

I'd be interested in your findings concerning better quality SS amps vs tube vs art. Be sure to post it here.

Did you try changing the voicing switch on the marshall power amp? One of the voicings is quite a bit duller than the other. From what ive read the marshall power amps arent in the same league as VHT and Mesa (2:90,2:100, strategy) so if you are liking the results with the marshall I can only imagine it to be even greater with the above mentioned brands.


Yes. There are two voicings. The bright one was almost unuseable it was so harsh. Still thats probably down to my patches being on the bright side to compensate (or try to) for the Arts apparent dullness (in comparrison). The darker voicing was nice. A little bright on crunch patches and a little fizzy on high gain ones - but much more satisfying than playing through the Art.

Imay get the Marshall if the quality SS amp doesnt do it. Ive spoken to the seller, and hell get the pots replaced and let mw have it for £400 which is more reasonable. Its do-able in a month (if he sells it before that then fine) but would be a tempory solution until I could afford the VHT 2:50:2. I should be ble to re-coup most if not all of my outlay for the Marshall at that point too.
 
Bird said:
It's threads like this that make me second guess going ahead with purchasing an Axe-Fx. I'm usually in a more classic rock type thing but I do like to play around with higher gain stuff.


I wouldn't let it discourage you. I play classic rock (ACDC, Zep, Free...) and I am getting pretty close to the tones I want. I'm not quite there yet, but close enough to believe it's only a matter of time. One of my favorite tones is the early ACDC "Jailbreak" into, which is definitely not high gain. I'm soooo close, just a little more tweaking. Oh yes, I'm not using FRFR, 4x12's pushing air baby. :D
 
Hello Guys happy owner of a 80's Mesa Boogie 50/50 power amp and would like to know if any of you are using this power amp with the Fractal Audio Axe FX,with a good results.?
 
Just a reminder that the cab and speakers are really important...

A friend of mine bought an Axe standard a few weeks ago and told me it sounded artificial, harsh, thin etc...

Today he came in and brought his cab - a big 2*12" with G12H (the British series).

We first played the Axe through my SLA-2 and my 1*12 cab with a JBL E-120 and he couldn't believe his ears...
Big, warm, full, open, ...

Then we played into his cab - it sounded: artificial and harsh.

He immediately bought an E-120 off eBay and will order a cab like mine (a friend builds them).
 
I would really like to hear some more from guys who have tried solid state and tube for high gain type stuff. Especially the vht series.

I have a carvin 1540L power amp and 2 4x12s and I have to dial out a lot of high end with it compared to when I run frfr into my monitors, seems kind of crazy.
 
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