Cab sims ON while using 2x12 guitar cab...

Tailstop

Tailstop

Inspired
I am about 3 months into Axe ownership and am loving it. Absolutely.
So I have an Axe2>Matrix800>Egnater 212. I adore this setup... Before I got my Matrix I was just going into a mackie450 powered speaker with various cab sims. Now I'm running thru the Matrix and the Egnater with sims off. I tried to experiment with cab sims ON thru the Egnater 212 and it sounds awesome! With the sims off I can get some pretty great tones by shaping the numerous eqs and tweaking the power amp sims, however I'm finding that with the cab sims my speakers push more air and sound full n amazing...

Anyone else have this opinion or maybe think I'll run into a problem with volume control? Obviously avoiding sonic redundancy is wise but maybe good is good?
 
Tailstop said:
I tried to experiment with cab sims ON thru the Egnater 212 and it sounds awesome!
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I have heard discussion in the past of people always turning cab's OFF when using real guitar cabs, AS THOUGH it's a required rule. BULL SH*T, it just changes the tone and sometimes (with it on), you get a great sound.
I'm glad you discovered this. As long as you don't get into issues involving clipping or adverse phase interactions, anything goes!
 
There are some recent threads about this. What works for you, works for you.

Personally I can't imagine using cabs sims with a conventional cab. EXCEPT when playing at very low volume levels, because the cab/mic sim will emphasize the low end, specially when using a relatively flat speaker like the EV 12L. But at medium to high volume levels, when real speakers start to respond and move air in collaboration with the power amp, the EQ-ing applied by the cab sim limits the effective frequency range and makes the sound "mushy". All IMHO.
 
I tried it a few timed way back when and never liked it, always had better luck when using real cabs to turn the cab sims off though I was running a pair of 412's.
 
I use a similar setup : Axe2>Matrix800>2 TT 1X12 EV 12L cabs and I like cab sims ON too. Regarding Yek's comment; it is true that I generally play at low volumes
so maybe if I played very loud I would feel differently and want the sims OFF. But at low volumes IMO it's much better.
 
I run a non-flat SS power amp into Eminence speakers and I too like using the cab sims. Some of them can make it sound kind of boxy and strange but a lot of them can be used as a frequency filter to focus the sweet spot you're looking for in any sound.
 
I use cabs on all the time and my axe output 1 XLR's go into the PA in stereo. However, I run the 1/4" into the effects return of a stereo Marshall AVT275 with a sealed 2x12 cabinet. I don't mic this amp though. I've become accustomed to programming patches with the Marshall setup in my house, that end up translating pretty well, later, through the Full Range PA, with minimal adjustments needed. I usually want more bass through the amp, but if I make it "sound good like how I want it to through the amp". When I go direct, my sound has way too much bass. So, now I know what to do with my programming, and I sort of ignore how the bass of the Marshall sounds when I'm at home. So, it is just my on-stage monitor, and I can get intentional feedback by turning towards it when I need sustain or feedback. I don't face it forward - so the crowd only hears guitar predominantly through the PA.

When I play at church, I eliminate the amp entirely, and use their in-ear system.

Do you guys that are leaving cabs on, and running a guitar cab, mic your guitar cab to send it through the PA?
 
I guess my thoughts on this are then you may as well use FRFR instead? Then you have unlimited possibilities. Seems this defeats the purpose of using a guitar cab...

Plus in my experience its muddy and muffled with most cabs. I guess to each his own of course. I could see the low volume argument as well. Plus different IR's are probably better than others.
 
Keg8605 said:
I guess my thoughts on this are then you may as well use FRFR instead? Then you have unlimited possibilities. Seems this defeats the purpose of using a guitar cab...

Plus in my experience its muddy and muffled with most cabs. I guess to each his own of course. I could see the low volume argument as well. Plus different IR's are probably better than others.
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I've tried this and it always sound muffled and "in a cave" like to me. Especially as I get louder, at very low volume I can get it to work.
 
By leaving my cab sims ON thru a 212 cab I am getting fatter, more robust tones. Thus giving me more product to shape! Also, like Yek mentioned they DO come out initially boomier, so treading upon other low freqs in the band room was somewhat noticeable.
One thing not being mentioned here is style of music! My opinions are stemming fr an aggressive, drop tuned, Queens Of the Stone Age vibe. If I were playing Steely Dan covers this topic may just be foolish. The sounds I've been getting are very 'wolffish' and aggressive. No metheny here! =]
I've also been using TWO and panned 75/25. The possibilities are tear jerking. Enough typing. THANK YOU ALL FOR RESPONDING!!
Cliff Prez 2016!


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This is not as uncommon as many would expect.
Some very seasoned players I work with have chosen Cab Sims into cabs over Cab Sims into PA and Cab Sims OFF into cabs.
 
hadu3ena.jpg

Btw, here is my rig! MFC-101 markIII coming tomorrow!
='}


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Tailstop said:
So I have an Axe2>Matrix800>Egnater 212. I adore this setup...
Click to expand...
I run the exact same setup , and I can always tell when I forget to turn my cab sims off, because when I do it sounds like ass :lol!. Perhaps with a lot of dialing in I might be able get a usable tone, but as it sits now running cab sims into a real cab just doesn't work for me at all. Obviously tastes (and ears) vary and experimentation yields different results for different people.
 
Whatever works for you, is what works for you. There are no rules. (except maybe, "do what works for you" and "there is no spoon" ;-) You certainly can, and should, create your presets with the cab sims on if you prefer.

I don't generally like my sound when I forget to turn off cab sims. But that's also because I made them with the intention of turning the sims off when I run into my regular cab. I'm sure that if I dialed them in the first place w/ cab sims on, I could make them sound good that way too.
 
I use cab sims at lowish, bedroom volume into the fx return for my Marshall 5210 combo with a upgraded speaker, eminence private jack....I find at lowish volume, it really works...gives a 4x12 feel and I also keep the power amp sim on. By its own power amp sim adds gain and some fizz.....then turning on the cab sim, brings back the bass and mid range thump....again at low volume...before the speaker itself gets working.

However for very low volume.....when people are asleep in the house, I run into a pair of adam a7x monitors....also glorious....but with a little more volume, still bedroom studio, I prefer the real cabinet influence/resonance.

At high volume (gig volume) can sim and power amp sim off.
 
When using my EV cabinets, there are times when running some cab sims works pretty well. But as we know, the EVM-12L is a relatively uncolored speaker. (Well...there are about seven different versions of the 12L and they all have their own sound.) However, when running into my 2x12 with Greenbacks, totally different story. I have not found any cab IR that works well with that to my ear.

When I plug the Fractal into my FRFR system (my home theater's main L/R sound system, AKA stereo system) then I get a full dose of what the various IRs are really and truly all about. The fact that this is also a true 1000 watt per channel audio system doesn't exactly hurt! (Mains are biamped, total of 4 channels @ 500W RMS each) It gets nice and full, with air being pushed pretty hard.
 
I use cab sims thru "real" cabs all day long at med and loud volumes. My cab is dead without the sim.
 
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