Buzzing on any not clean sound (ex "torn speaker")

[Chromatizm]

Can you please tell that the clipping you can hear in this clip is exactly what I should expect or this is a sign of some problem?

• The preset used: #028 "Vibrato Deluxe" on the S06 "Dry Pushed" scene, FW 5b
• Everything is off except for Amp and Cab. Amp Level -10dB, drive 7,25 (everything is on defaults), meters don't even close to red (in fact, meters showed above -5 when recording this)
• Used Input 2 with Padding 0, Output 2 max'ed (unity) into Zoom UAC-2 interface. Tried three different instrument cables, plus tried to record via Output 1 using XLR cable
• Same effect with any Padding setting, including 18dB
• Very audible via my Focals via external interface or using headphones directly into the FM3
• Strings are touched lightly by fingers

I hear this sound on any guitar (sample is Fishman Abasi's with a fresh battery, simply because the effect is more noticeable with this guitar), but the same effect (to a bit smaller degree) is on all guitars, EART GW2 stock hums or G&L alnico and MFD SS. To my ear is sounds as some keeps paper very close to the mic and the paper hits the mic, or something like that.

Am I just crazy and this is exactly how closely mic'ed cab with a hint of distortion should sound like? This sounds is in effect with literally any amp setting slightly above the "very very very clean" setting, like I can't hear any of this in #049 "JM45" preset on a clean scene, when Amp Drive is 0.10. But almost everything above that starts with this sound, and it becomes inaudible only on high-gain settings, which I don't really use/need.
If I change the Amp Drive to 3.5 in the same preset, this sound is gone. I can set Amp Level to 0, get in full red zone on the meters, hit the strings as hard as I want and still don't have it. Ok, not exactly true - if I pick really hard, I get a clear digital clipping distortion, and it sound different, harsh, as you would expect.
The original issue above is kind of "mellow" sounding but still disturbing. However, Amp Drive 4.5 already gives me same clipping as in the clip.
This is not the sound of strings buzzing in front of frets, neither it is some other physical level issue before the pickups.

Is this the expected behavior or I should check something else to find the root of an issue? I don't like this particular sound, but if it IS what I should expect from closely mic'ed cab, than I will get used to it.
Please help me, I've been fighting this for a week now and I'm on the edge of breaking up. It drives me nuts!

 

[chris]

drive 7,25

i think turning up a real Deluxe that high is extremely loud, so i'd imagine this is what it would sound like.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I think it's a pretty good imitation of a Brownface Deluxe. When playing it with a PRS DGT I think there is a lot of "room" sound in that particular scene that seems to be due to the cab choices. Muting the strings and slowly strumming sounds like reverb or a bit of slapback. I switched to two Allesandro cabs which made it sound extra-specially nice and cleared up that ambience.

Most players never get at ear level to their speaker(s) to hear what the amp actually sounds like. I run mine tipped back so it's pointing at my head so I have a better idea what it's sounding like. The microphone, being next to the speaker, picks up a lot more highs and lows, and a modeler, because it's designed to imitate that sound, will also have more highs and lows.

"Close-miking" is useful to read… heck, read the whole page as it's very good.

 

[Chromatizm]

Thanks a lot for replies, guys! I'm starting to lose my sleep over this... A couple more clips for your review please!

Dry Cleaner scene of the same preset, Amp Drive 2.30, so it is cleeeeeeean
Input 2 with 18db padding
Two guitars - one with normal passive humbuckers, one with Fishman's in "passive" mode
In both clips the first riff is amp and cab only, second one with Drive block on channel B (RC Booster, default settings, drive 5), third one is channel D (King of Tone, default settings, drive 7)



Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning the modelling, it's just my experience in playing at home and in typical clubs where no one cares to really work with mic and cab, and the sounds I'm getting now is not what my ear expects and used to, so I wonder if it is me or there is some problem in my sound chain.
Like, for example, you'll never get distorted tone out of a clean channel on a low level (and drive 2.30 is low enough, right?) if you throw in RC Booster with gain (and even) volume above unity, so around 12 or even 1 o'clock (I expect "5" in the modeler is about the half-way of a physical know, which gives us 12 to 1). And even 2 or 3 on the gain is not enough to get the amp to distort.l
And KOT would sound more aggressive on 7, no?...

So really what I'm trying to understand here is where I'm wrong - in my general understanding, in my hearing or something's wrong with my gear.
Please excuse my sloppy playing!

 

[chris]

Thanks a lot for replies, guys! I'm starting to lose my sleep over this... A couple more clips for your review please!

Dry Cleaner scene of the same preset, Amp Drive 2.30, so it is cleeeeeeean
Input 2 with 18db padding
Two guitars - one with normal passive humbuckers, one with Fishman's in "passive" mode
In both clips the first riff is amp and cab only, second one with Drive block on channel B (RC Booster, default settings, drive 5), third one is channel D (King of Tone, default settings, drive 7)



Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning the modelling, it's just my experience in playing at home and in typical clubs where no one cares to really work with mic and cab, and the sounds I'm getting now is not what my ear expects and used to, so I wonder if it is me or there is some problem in my sound chain.
Like, for example, you'll never get distorted tone out of a clean channel on a low level (and drive 2.30 is low enough, right?) if you throw in RC Booster with gain (and even) volume above unity, so around 12 or even 1 o'clock (I expect "5" in the modeler is about the half-way of a physical know, which gives us 12 to 1). And even 2 or 3 on the gain is not enough to get the amp to distort.l
And KOT would sound more aggressive on 7, no?...

So really what I'm trying to understand here is where I'm wrong - in my general understanding, in my hearing or something's wrong with my gear.
Please excuse my sloppy playing!

i'm not clear what you're expecting vs what you're getting.

can you describe it in a more plain way? the parentheticals are making it hard to understand.

 

[EdgE]

Those clips sound normal to me ,if your trying to get a cleaner sound like on the fender amps ,id try turn down the master, on the ideal page

 

[JTI]

This is what a mic'd amp sounds like.

 

[jlynnb1]

always remember we can run the amps in the box way hotter/louder than we usually can in real life. most people never run a Fender loud enough to breakup.

you may be having issues, but it's also something consider.

 

[mr_fender]

A Deluxe Reverb will start to break up at around 4 depending on how hot your pickups are. It's a 22 watt amp, so it's not exactly known for it's ample headroom. Twin reverb is a better choice if you need clean headroom.

 

[ben ifin]

All sounds perfectly normal - I've never played a Fender that has a nice sounding / natural breakup / natural overdrive - but as others have said - this is what a mic'd amp sounds like.

Ben

 

[Greg Ferguson]

• Used Input 2 with Padding 0, Output 2 max'ed (unity) into Zoom UAC-2 interface. Tried three different instrument cables, plus tried to record via Output 1 using XLR cable

Input 2 with 18db padding

The preset in question doesn't use Input 2 so you've changed at least one thing to get any sort of signal into the grid.
Why are you using Input 2? Is your guitar sending a line-level output?

 

[simeon]

yeah, i'd use input 1. it's got some extra "sauce" on it and it's the one that's designed to be used with an instrument.

 

[Ugly Bunny]

It sounds to me like you're becoming obsessed with the character of the overdrive/amp (we've ALL been there lol). As you can tell by your own clips, clean guitar sounds horrible when you spank the guitar like that and all you hear is the strings getting choked off by flapping back against the fretboard. That sort of playing, anyway, will make a clean amp overdrive a little, IMO, or will sound harsh enough to make it sound like overdrive, even if it's not overdrive per se.

If you want to test a clean tone, raise your action a bit (or play softer) and arpeggiate some things; add some chorus or delay/verb to really let the clean tone sparkle. Slamming power chords on a guitar with too low of action is never going to sound "clean."

This is all to say that I think it sounds perfectly fine. Remember to let your sound reinforcement (monitors, etc.) do some of the work for you. If you're hitting the strings that hard to get more volume, don't; turn up your sound system (also make sure you're tickling the red in the Preset Leveling tool to ensure your preset is loud enough in the system). I can't tell you how many times I've seen folks complain that their clean tone was dirty or overdrivey only to realize they're trying to turn up the virtual amp instead of their sound system. Gain staging may or may not be your problem, but regardless; I think your setup sounds normal/like it's supposed to Cheers!

(EDIT: and yes, if you're plugging your guitar into the unit, use Input 1 for best results)

 

[Chromatizm]

Overwhelmed with the response, thanks a lot guys!

can you describe it in a more plain way?

Sorry! English is not my native language. The issue I'm having is that on any guitar, on any input/output combination, on almost any amp with settings slightly higher than very clean sound, I hear that slight rattling distortion from the very first clip in the thread. It goes away on very clean and very distorted sounds.
And it does not sit right with me simply because it's not what I'm hearing from real devices at home and in clubs. I literally never heard that sound before I believe. And I know that my experience with recording real mic'ed amps in studio is not enough to say "this is wrong". So I'm checking with you guys, because like everyone here is more experienced than me with this stuff, is this sound exactly what how it sounds to you or there is an issue with my setup So literally I want to be proved wrong on this And many people here say exactly that so I'm (almost) happy!

Almost, because this, for example, still doesn't sound right to me - I get a feeling that I have a clean sound with a bit of some rattling distortion added as a second sound! Like in parallel, you get the idea? I really expect a very different sound from a TS808 into very clean Double Verb - both "drives" at 3.

Why are you using Input 2? Is your guitar sending a line-level output?

My main guitar is equipped with Fishman Tosin Abasi pickups. They seem to be really hot and In1 with 0db padding is always in red LED zone , and even with 18db padding with digital clipping distortion heard even on very clean tones. Did not work for me, so I tried In2.
And it was better until just a moment ago I changed the input 2 mode to "right only" and not the signal is noticeably louder and clipping like hell again And I don't have pickups set up high, then are 4 to 5 mm below the strings, far enough for this not to be a problem. I lowered them as deep as I could, literally no more room to move further "into" the body.
Now I'm lost and desperate. The only guitar I really need to work with FM3 is not working properly. Switched back to In1 with 18dB pad and it is digital clipping all over again on the cleanest possible Double Verb preset (amp drive 3). At the same time, hardware LEDs and software meters are not touching red at all.


S.O.S.

 

[laxu]

If the input meter LEDs are not hitting red, set the input pad to the lowest value where this does not happen more than on the hardest strums. Red lighting up does not mean it is clipping for the input meters, just that it’s getting close.

I guarantee your issue is elsewhere along the line.

 

[Marco Sfogli]

Almost, because this, for example, still doesn't sound right to me - I get a feeling that I have a clean sound with a bit of some rattling distortion added as a second sound! Like in parallel, you get the idea? I really expect a very different sound from a TS808 into very clean Double Verb - both "drives" at 3.

This is how a TS808 actually sounds like on a clean Fender amp.

My main guitar is equipped with Fishman Tosin Abasi pickups. They seem to be really hot and In1 with 0db padding is always in red LED zone , and even with 18db padding with digital clipping distortion heard even on very clean tones. Did not work for me, so I tried In2.

I have my input 1 Pad set to 6db and sometimes hit the red light but I doubt EMG's are weaker than Fishmans in terms of output power so I'd double check something else here

 

[Ugly Bunny]

I'm not hearing anything out of the ordinary with the 808 clip; that's exactly what I'd expect to hear.

I really do think you're overthinking this. I mean, I'm not hearing anything wrong in that second clip either...

 

[chris]

Overwhelmed with the response, thanks a lot guys!


Sorry! English is not my native language. The issue I'm having is that on any guitar, on any input/output combination, on almost any amp with settings slightly higher than very clean sound, I hear that slight rattling distortion from the very first clip in the thread. It goes away on very clean and very distorted sounds.
And it does not sit right with me simply because it's not what I'm hearing from real devices at home and in clubs. I literally never heard that sound before I believe. And I know that my experience with recording real mic'ed amps in studio is not enough to say "this is wrong". So I'm checking with you guys, because like everyone here is more experienced than me with this stuff, is this sound exactly what how it sounds to you or there is an issue with my setup So literally I want to be proved wrong on this And many people here say exactly that so I'm (almost) happy!

Almost, because this, for example, still doesn't sound right to me - I get a feeling that I have a clean sound with a bit of some rattling distortion added as a second sound! Like in parallel, you get the idea? I really expect a very different sound from a TS808 into very clean Double Verb - both "drives" at 3.



My main guitar is equipped with Fishman Tosin Abasi pickups. They seem to be really hot and In1 with 0db padding is always in red LED zone , and even with 18db padding with digital clipping distortion heard even on very clean tones. Did not work for me, so I tried In2.
And it was better until just a moment ago I changed the input 2 mode to "right only" and not the signal is noticeably louder and clipping like hell again And I don't have pickups set up high, then are 4 to 5 mm below the strings, far enough for this not to be a problem. I lowered them as deep as I could, literally no more room to move further "into" the body.
Now I'm lost and desperate. The only guitar I really need to work with FM3 is not working properly. Switched back to In1 with 18dB pad and it is digital clipping all over again on the cleanest possible Double Verb preset (amp drive 3). At the same time, hardware LEDs and software meters are not touching red at all.


S.O.S.

I understand now. Your English is great! It was just multiple statements in the same sentence with the (parentheses) that confused me.

 

[Will Chen]

I'm not understanding this thread as I don't hear anything like a ripped speaker in the clips.

OP, check your output level here to ensure you are not clipping the input of a down stream device, your clips sound perfectly acceptable. Compare the Deluxe models in the FM3 to this vid at similar settings using single coils, the sound will be very, very similar. With humbuckers you can back off the input trim to get a similar gain response but things will sound much different due to the typical frequency response of humbuckers vs single coils. If do not like the sound of the FM3 (and the below vid), you just don't like the sound of a Deluxe. Please specifically detail what real world setup you are trying to mimic and someone should be able to help you.

 

[chris]

I think he’s just trying specific amps that sound a certain way at a certain drive level and isn’t familiar with the break-up sound of those specific amps. Not going for any tone, just discovered that sound and isn’t familiar.