Brit 800 2204 vs 2203 thoughts

sparkle

Inspired
FM9 user here… curious
Brit 800 2204 vs 2203 thoughts

I just recently started using the 2204 Brit 800…

Was curious if anyone switched from the 2204 to the 2203…how is the sound difference…I would assume close…maybe more bottom?
 
Changed to 2203 as well. It’s a tad more dynamic and smoother. With dynamic I mean you can go from crystal cleans to a distorted sound with guitar volume and picking dynamics. When picking lightly the sound doesn’t have this distorted quality compared to many other Marshall amps. Like with the real 2203 picking a note on a high output pickup really softly it sounds like a good jazz tone with the high end rolled off. Just perfect. Was using the 2204 with the suggested negative feedback tweak, which is similar, but I prefer the new 2203.

With gain 5-6, master at 4-5 and a TS it’s an amazing jack of all trades amp. I find my hi-fi guitar cables too bright with this amp for what I’m using it for, so to have a lower resonance peak in your guitar sound I’ve set the input-z to lower values. Using a late 80’s 1960B impulse I made from my real cab, so not sure how it translates to other cabs.

Make sure to try this amp with loud volumes even once in your lifetime. It’s an amazing experience. The real amp starts to get LOUD when you approach 4 with master volume. After that it doesn’t get any louder, but grittier and more loose.
 
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I've been playing around between these models recently. I've used a late (1980) Marshall JMP 2203 as a "do anything" stage and recording amp for about 30 years. I've had a couple of backups, a 2204, and a few other Marshall 50 watt heads too (all now sold aside from a JMP 50 watt 4-prong). I am so glad they are now modelled in the Axe FX III, as they have been an intrinsic part of any rock/alt rock/indie etc. that I have played over so many years. I got close with tweaks, but an "oven ready" 2203 is an absolute blessing!

Fractal model-wise, you'd think they are much more similar than they are in real life. In the modelling versions, 2203 has a bigger and tighter bottom end, but beyond that they are pretty similar sounding. In real life, both amps are insanely loud unless attenuated, but the 2203's bigger and tighter bottom end is supported by twice the power, and some really heavy duty power and output transformers when compared to the 2204. The 2203 with a 4x12 can be felt in the trouser legs much more than the 2204 at stage volume - it's a unique experience! Hearing the models side by side in the Axe FX doesn't really do justice to this (unless you are plugged into a mighty FRFR system, with the 2203 set for at least 3 dB more output level I guess).

I'm tending to use both models in a similar way to the real amps. For me that means gain around 4, and master volume around 3.5 for the 2203, and 4.5 for the 2204. As @aens says, they can get really bright, but I tend to control that with treble, middle and bass controls, and try to keep the presence up as high as I reasonable can. If you turn the middle up very high it tends to disable the treble and bass controls' range a little, in common with a lot of Marshalls of the era. Going much higher than 4.5 on the master volume makes them sound "honky" in the lower mid range to me, and with a real 2203 that honkiness can also be pretty painful. Might be some of the reason I have tinnitus nowadays.

I don't particularly like the sound of these amps through the late 70's Marshall "1960" cabs that they came with (G12T-65W, or were they 75W?) A real shame as the only 4 x 12 I still own is a 1978ish Marshall 1960A.:tearsofjoy: My preference for IRs are G12H (30 watt) and G12M (25 watt) in 75Hz and 55Hz low resonance versions. There are some nice examples in the factory cabs from a few different sources. They have warmer mids, and less emphasis on bottom and top. @aens, you might find trying these loses some of the "hi-fi" brightness, but I'm not all that familiar with late 80s Marshall cabs, so it also might not!

For me it's 2203 all the way between these 2, but it's my favourite "real" amp in a very long life of guitar playing, so that might just be blatant favouritism.

Liam
 
As @aens says, they can get really bright, but I tend to control that with treble, middle and bass controls, and try to keep the presence up as high as I reasonable can. If you turn the middle up very high it tends to disable the treble and bass controls' range a little, in common with a lot of Marshalls of the era. Going much higher than 4.5 on the master volume makes them sound "honky" in the lower mid range to me, and with a real 2203 that honkiness can also be pretty painful. Might be some of the reason I have tinnitus nowadays.
Fellow 80’s Marshall heavy user 🫡 Thanks for sharing the cool story. The reason for messing around with some many of these tiny details (like guitar cables, meh, I know) is that I’m trying to recreate a certain sound made with exactly this amp (’77 2203 but it’s supposed to be same circuit) and a certain late 80’s cab. You can just lower the treble and play your guitar, but it just doesn’t sound the same to me with many of the high quality guitar cables I use. Kind of the same thing where Hendrix diehards say that the coily cable is a must.

I’ve kind of thought about using a modern hi-fi cable with these amps and it does make sense that these amps most probably were not designed with those in mind. YMMV but I think the high end is just too bright with too high of a guitar signal resonance peak, and it limits your use of the treble knob. The late 80’s cabs are also heavy on the treble. Back in the 80’s no-one except maybe audio scientists cared about instrument cable impedance and just used whatever gear they had. On stage and in studio cable runs could’ve been long, and of course there could be buffers in the signal path but… Again this really depends on what you’re looking from this amp. Hope I don’t sound like a madman, but it can happen when you’re chasing a certain sound for too long 😇

I think the master volume sweet spot with 2203 is around 3.9 or at least that’s where it’s starting to sound the best. I feel like the 2203 model isn’t as bad with higher values as the real amp is. No wonder I’ve been liking the master volume higher with the 2204 as I’ve not tried the real counterpart. Also with enough volume the 2203 starts to compress in a really nice way and your effects kind of blend in nicely into the sound instead of sounding separate. Not sure you can hear it with bedroom volume that well, but in a room with the real amp you sure can.
 
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Some of you Marshall freeeks should post some presets, here or on AxeChange. Show us how it's done!
can't when you use vendor IRs.

it's easy:
1) buy the OH GNR MMMC pack or (r) Evolution GNR equivalent or both.
2) open any Marshall related amp on the Fractal.
3) play

** disclaimer - JVM models not included. They are trash. Not knocking the Fractal. They were copied well but the real life model has only one purpose - to be a boat anchor.
 
Why pick one when you can have both in the same preset. For that A chord hit in the gut, I like the 2203. 2204 seems smoother / rounder / warmer.
 
can't when you use vendor IRs.

it's easy:
1) buy the OH GNR MMMC pack or (r) Evolution GNR equivalent or both.
2) open any Marshall related amp on the Fractal.
3) play

** disclaimer - JVM models not included. They are trash. Not knocking the Fractal. They were copied well but the real life model has only one purpose - to be a boat anchor.
You're right about the IR, but I have both of those, many folks here probably have at least one. So just build it with some factory cab as a stand-in, set everything else how you would, we'll swap out the cab for one of those, or something else we like.

I'd just really like to take a look at what you do with these.

I've never been a Marshall guy IRL. I've gotten some Axe tones out of them that I like, but they're probably not what Real Marshall Folks do, and I'm curious. What's second nature to you is Mars to me. Or might be, no idea, hence the questions.
 
You're right about the IR, but I have both of those, many folks here probably have at least one. So just build it with some factory cab as a stand-in, set everything else how you would, we'll swap out the cab for one of those, or something else we like.

I'd just really like to take a look at what you do with these.

I've never been a Marshall guy IRL. I've gotten some Axe tones out of them that I like, but they're probably not what Real Marshall Folks do, and I'm curious. What's second nature to you is Mars to me. Or might be, no idea, hence the questions.
I don't do much as not much is needed.
download this. Leon posted this about 4 months ago. I substituted the RAW 121-10 and RAW 57-1 for Leon's IR.
My ears change from day to day like most, so sometimes I get crazy and use the Celestion Greenbacks, York M25 or the Rosen Digital JMP.

I made 2 copies of the preset. I put in/left the Plexi, JTM and 2203 on one preset.
I put in the 2203, 2204, 34 and the Brit Silver on the other.
 

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It was fairly straightforward to get the 2204 to match this JMP badged 2203 circuit;



The new Brit 2203 model gets me in my preferred Marshall zone slightly faster, but the 2 models share way more similarities than differences IMO. Having the high and low inputs modeled is a really nice touch.
 
The 2204/2203 models are interchangeable in my opinion, I also think it's because of this:

it's a unique experience! Hearing the models side by side in the Axe FX doesn't really do justice to this (unless you are plugged into a mighty FRFR system, with the 2203 set for at least 3 dB more output level I guess

I tried to disable negative feedback on both 2204 and 2203 models and compared volume, the real 2203 should supposedly be 3dB louder than 2204 if the output transformers presents the same impedance load to the output tubes.

It would be cool to preserve the wattage volume difference between all models so we can experience the real difference between a 5W Fender Champ and a 100W Marshall, but in a modeler the balance between all models is more important.
 
The 2204/2203 models are interchangeable in my opinion, I also think it's because of this:

I tried to disable negative feedback on both 2204 and 2203 models and compared volume, the real 2203 should supposedly be 3dB louder than 2204 if the output transformers presents the same impedance load to the output tubes.
That’s actually a genius way to compare them which I’ve never thought of. IIRC you said you’ve played with Fractal for only several weeks or months in another thread? Impressive.

If one would like to ”upgrade” any 50 W Marshall (let’s say prior to 90’s) would raising the negative feedback get you at least in the ballpark of a 100 W model? I’m mainly interested in a late 70’s JMP, but the Plexi 2204 sounds like a different beast. The other 2203/2204 models sound more like what I’m after, at least for the time being.

In case you have any info about the early JMP (mkII) models starting from ’77, I’m all ears. Is there any differences compared to the 80’s JMP or is it the same thing? A certain late 70’s JMP I’ve been grown to listen sounds much more like a JCM then the Plexi 2204 model. Just doesn’t make any sense to me that a ’77 JMP amp sounds closer to an ’84 (or ’85?) JCM 2203 model, but an ’81 JMP 2204 model sounds totally different when they’re supposed to be sharing the same circuit (well, mostly). Also my real ’82 2203 JMP sounds exactly like the new 2203 model 😵‍💫

EDIT: corrected the ”transition era” to ”early”, since the mkII JMP has been available prior to 1977.
 
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I don't particularly like the sound of these amps through the late 70's Marshall "1960" cabs that they came with (G12T-65W, or were they 75W?) A real shame as the only 4 x 12 I still own is a 1978ish Marshall 1960A.:tearsofjoy: My preference for IRs are G12H (30 watt) and G12M (25 watt) in 75Hz and 55Hz low resonance versions. There are some nice examples in the factory cabs from a few different sources. They have warmer mids, and less emphasis on bottom and top. @aens, you might find trying these loses some of the "hi-fi" brightness, but I'm not all that familiar with late 80s Marshall cabs, so it also might not!
My JCM800 1960 Lead cab has T75's in it, made in England in the late 80's I believe. It is a really cool cab!
 
My JCM800 1960 Lead cab has T75's in it, made in England in the late 80's I believe. It is a really cool cab!
That’s a great match for a 2203 JCM. I have the 1960B with 16 ohm G12T75’s. Not a popular one to use with modelers it seems. I’ve been searching for 8 ohm elements but they seem to be impossible to find.
 
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