Blackface preamp + HIWATT power amp (Pink Floyd Pulse sound)

psst

psst

Inspired
I guess all Gilmour fans would like to have an amp which would consist on Blackface preamp and HIWATT power amp, for the Pulse-era sound.
Since we can't currently choose separately preamp and poweramp, it would be cool to have an amp with that combination in the Axe.
 
What you could do though is run a Blackface amp with sag on "0" and run that into the Hiwatt with gain low. That would at least give you the Blackface preamp pure and an approximation of the desired rig.
 
The tonestack is just the equa part of the schematic...so no.(i guess a hiwatt is far from a blackface more close to a plexi)
 
hunter said:
What you could do though is run a Blackface amp with sag on "0" and run that into the Hiwatt with gain low. That would at least give you the Blackface preamp pure and an approximation of the desired rig.
Click to expand...

Mmm, yeah, but that would introduce the hiwatt preamp character in the equation, even if you use low gain. I think the result would be quite different.

Stringtheorist said:
Can't you use a Hiwatt model with a Blackface tonestack? Wouldn't that achieve the same thing?
Click to expand...

That would be another approximation, but the character of the preamp is more than just the tonestack. It's a nice idea for an approximation, though. I'll give it a try and see how it works, but let's cross fingers Cliff give us that blackface + hiwatt model.
 
psst said:
hunter said:
What you could do though is run a Blackface amp with sag on "0" and run that into the Hiwatt with gain low. That would at least give you the Blackface preamp pure and an approximation of the desired rig.
Click to expand...

Mmm, yeah, but that would introduce the hiwatt preamp character in the equation, even if you use low gain. I think the result would be quite different.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it would be for sure the only close solution available in the Axe. (the tonestack idea is worst)
 
bmi said:
Yes, but it would be for sure the only close solution available in the Axe. (the tonestack idea is worst)
Click to expand...

Mmm, I don't think so, both solutions are obviously just approximations to what we'd like to get, but I think putting one after another is the worst approximation.
The hiwatt tonestack is not flat at all, so you have the fender preamp, then put through a hiwatt preamp (not flat at all, so you're changing the equ quite dramatically) and then to the hiwatt power amp section.

Anyway, let's hope Cliff gives us that "model". ;)
 
psst said:
bmi said:
Yes, but it would be for sure the only close solution available in the Axe. (the tonestack idea is worst)
Click to expand...

Mmm, I don't think so, both solutions are obviously just approximations to what we'd like to get, but I think putting one after another is the worst approximation.
The hiwatt tonestack is not flat at all, so you have the fender preamp, then put through a hiwatt preamp (not flat at all, so you're changing the equ quite dramatically) and then to the hiwatt power amp section.

Anyway, let's hope Chris gives us that "model". ;)
Click to expand...

The name is Cliff :mrgreen:

And instead of arguing, one could also try both variants and see if one works!
:cool:
 
hunter said:
The name is Cliff :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

OOOOPS!!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Corrected. :mrgreen:
In my defense, I'm under heavy jet-lag (USA -> Europe). ;)


Yeah, I'll give them a try this evening, I even have the real thing, so I could compare them, but I'm a little lazy taking the amps out of the case... ;)
 
Tsk, tsk, tsk.

You have the real thing and you have not tried to get as close as possible yet using the available models because you're lazy?
Same on you. :roll:
Is there really nothing similar in the Axe already? Hardly seems possible. :?

Hop to it! And don't forget to...
Share what you find with us mere mortals that do not own the real thing! :p ;)
 
same -> shame ;)

I had never tried that PULSE era setup before, but of course I tried the different amps by themselves against the Axe, I actually wrote a post about it...
The reason of the "laziness" (it's more a lack of time) is that I have to modify the HIWATT to use only the power amp. Not hard at all (easy mod), I actually built a couple of Hiwatts and other amps myself, but you know, take it out of the case, open it, unsolder things...

And I'm sure there are similar sounds in the Axe already, it's just that I want it spot on, and since both amps are already built in the Axe, I guess it's quite easy for Cliff, that's the reason for my "wish"...
 
psst said:
bmi said:
Yes, but it would be for sure the only close solution available in the Axe. (the tonestack idea is worst)
Click to expand...

Mmm, I don't think so, both solutions are obviously just approximations to what we'd like to get, but I think putting one after another is the worst approximation.
The hiwatt tonestack is not flat at all, so you have the fender preamp, then put through a hiwatt preamp (not flat at all, so you're changing the equ quite dramatically) and then to the hiwatt power amp section.

Anyway, let's hope Cliff gives us that "model". ;)
Click to expand...
Of course both options are aproximations but in the first option you use a completly different preamp than a Blackface and the tonestack is just a small part of the preamp.
On the second option you use the Blackface preamp (with sag=0 to disable the poweramp) with the Hiwatt model trying to make the preamp as linear as you can to get only the poweramp.
Low gain helps in that and for the tonestack Cliff says that for many amps you get a flat response by setting bass=0, mid=max, treble=0. So you can try that with the Hiwatt model. Perhaps Cliff can tell us the right settings to get a flat tonestack with the Hiwatt model if it's doable.

If you want to have an idea of the differences in schematics between a Blackface and a Hiwatt look at this :
_ Blackface 763
http://www.schematicheaven.com/fenderam ... _schem.pdf
tonestack is the network of caps/resistors located under the label 7025 in the uper left corner where there is writen bass, middle, treble.


_ Hiwatt DR103
http://www.schematicheaven.com/newamps/ ... _dr103.pdf
tonestack is the network of caps/resistors in the middle of page 4 where again it's written bass, middle, treble

Compare the other parts if you want to use the Hiwatt preamp instead of the Blackface to get a Blackface preamp.
Good luck ;)
 
Ok, I tried it.
As I feared, the preamp after preamp method didn't sound right, but on the other hand shifting the tonestack in the hiwatt to blackface and the appropriate tonestack center frequency worked really well, very very similar to the blackface amp, so I could get a blackface-sound in the pre and hiwatt poweramp.
So I guess I don't really need that amp after all, thanks all for the suggestions.
 
psst said:
Ok, I tried it.
As I feared, the preamp after preamp method didn't sound right, but on the other hand shifting the tonestack in the hiwatt to blackface and the appropriate tonestack center frequency worked really well, very very similar to the blackface amp, so I could get a blackface-sound in the pre and hiwatt poweramp.
So I guess I don't really need that amp after all, thanks all for the suggestions.
Click to expand...
Did you use the same tonestack center frequency in the Hiwatt model as it was set in the Blackface model ?
 
I think in the end I put the blackface's center freq, but not 100% sure to remember, cause I was experimenting with in-between values too, I'll tell you next time I go to the rehearsal room.
 
psst said:
I think in the end I put the blackface's center freq, but not 100% sure to remember, cause I was experimenting with in-between values, I'll tell you next time I go to the rehearsal room.
Click to expand...
Cool ;)
 
It works fine here.
I've made a little test with the same values on preamps and same cabs. The Hiwatt preamp with Blackface tonestack (Blackface center frequency) sounds muddy when the Blackface preamp with Hiwatt poweramp model sounds clear. So it's probably a matter of taste or you didn't know how to use your Axe.
I will post tomorrow the presets and make small records for each so everyone can make his own opinion.
 
Here are the presets and a sample played with a melody maker (so a little bit sounding dry).
First in the sample the Hiwatt with the Blackface tonestack alone (and pending center frequency) than the Blackface with the Hiwatt as poweramp.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mitn3bywqoy
 
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