Best way to import York Audio, ML Sound Lab and OwnHammer IRs into the FM3

[DanielePanza]

Hi there,

I imported my @York Audio , @ML SOUND LAB and OwnHammer IR libraries into my FM3 with no Auto Trim nor Min Phase, as I figured that's the untouched, highest quality version of the files as provided by the vendors, and I never mix cabs from different developers, so no need for the extra processing.

However, I noticed that Natural Phase IRs don't work well with the Room/Air section of the cab block: somehow, dialling that in (I think Air causes the issue) seems to introduce phase issues which don't happen with MPT files.

I'm therefore going to re-import my entire library, and I was wondering if it's best to use the MPT files provided by the developers, or import the Natural ones and apply Min Phase on the FM3. Theoretically these should be the same, but I noticed that the Room/Air section interacts slightly differently with the MPT files than with the Natural files converted to MPT by the FM3. I think Natural ones converted by the FM3 work marginally better with the Air parameter, but I'm not 100% sure, as my ears are shut now, too much A/B-ing

I'm inclined to think that I should let the FM3 convert the IRs, as it would do it in such way that works best with its features, but advice/feedback from the IR developers and/or @FractalAudio would be MASSIVELY appreciated here!

 

[jlynnb1]

Fm Edit, Cab Manager, navigate to the folder they are in, drag them into empty spots...it's that easy.

 

[DanielePanza]

Fm Edit, Cab Manager, navigate to the folder they are in, drag them into empty spots...it's that easy.

Thanks, but I was asking a totally different question

 

[Habuman]

There isn't anything wrong with the answer @jlynnb1 provided.

How is the FM3 going to convert the IRs? That is the purpose of Cab Manager. To import IRs.

Maybe you are thinking of Cab Lab?

 

[DanielePanza]

There isn't anything wrong with the answer @jlynnb1 provided.

How is the FM3 going to convert the IRs? That is the purpose of Cab Manager. To import IRs.

Maybe you are thinking of Cab Lab?

Not really what I was asking, I know how to import IRs, my question is around the optimal method to import MPT files...on Cab Manager on the FM3, you’re given the option to leave the IRs as they are, trim the silence at the beginning, or apply min phase transformation. Now, the vendors I mentioned provide both MPT and Natural files, and I’m wondering if it’s best to import the MPT files or the Natural ones, applying MPT on the FM3 upon importing. I A/B tested the 2 methods, and the Room/Air seems to have a different effect on the 2 IRs, which makes me wonder which method the vendors or FAS would recommend here. If you turn the room and air mix down to 0, there is no audible difference between the vendors’ MPT files and the natural files converted by the FM3.

 

[Habuman]

Understand now. The IR Processing Mode tab near the bottom of the Browser menu.

Yes, definitely something for the IR developers or FAS to answer. Or hopefully someone that has used this option before will assist.

 

[Habuman]

Not sure if this helps any but did you read the section about IRs and the IR Processing Mode on Fractal Audio Wiki. Near the bottom of page.

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Impulse_responses_(IR)

 

[chris]

Not really what I was asking, I know how to import IRs,

thread title is "Best way to import ... IRs into the FM3" so people are answering that question.

maybe change the title to mention the part "my question is around the optimal method to import MPT files." you might get different people looking at the thread who know that answer.

 

[Petrocelli]

If you dial in Air, i think i remember it is nothing different than the direct signal filtered with an adjustabele Hipass Filter mixed in, so the phase of the imported IR and the "air" signal must match. So if you import IRs in cablab, minimal phase must work best! But i dont have tried it out!

 

[York Audio]

Personally, I just import the MPT versions so you don’t get any weird phase issues if you want to blend different cabs. I’d also recommend making sure your Cab block’s High Cut on the Preamp page set all the way up to 20k (it used to default to 10k, so double check that). Starting with this gives you optimal clarity and perception of your tone. If you want to alter the phase relationship of the IRs, you can use the Align feature in the cab block to slightly delay one of the mics. That helps if two MPT IRs sound too fizzy and you want to tame the top end a bit.

And just my two cents, I wouldn’t use the Air in the cab block. IRs are already accurate representations of the mic’ed cabinet, so that’s just an additional EQ that moves you away from authenticity. If you want more top end, you’re likely to get more natural results by tweaking the presence and treble controls on the amp.

 

[DanielePanza]

If you dial in Air, i think i remember it is nothing different than the direct signal filtered with an adjustabele Hipass Filter mixed in, so the phase of the imported IR and the "air" signal must match. So if you import IRs in cablab, minimal phase must work best! But i dont have tried it out!

Makes sense, at first I thought the control was post cab, (I thought it was like an Air band on a Maag) but I figured it's parallel as it caused phase issues with non MPT IRs. Hadn't realized it was a filtered direct signal though, thanks for the tip!

 

[DanielePanza]

Personally, I just import the MPT versions so you don’t get any weird phase issues if you want to blend different cabs. I’d also recommend making sure your Cab block’s High Cut on the Preamp page set all the way up to 20k (it used to default to 10k, so double check that). Starting with this gives you optimal clarity and perception of your tone. If you want to alter the phase relationship of the IRs, you can use the Align feature in the cab block to slightly delay one of the mics. That helps if two MPT IRs sound too fizzy and you want to tame the top end a bit.

And just my two cents, I wouldn’t use the Air in the cab block. IRs are already accurate representations of the mic’ed cabinet, so that’s just an additional EQ that moves you away from authenticity. If you want more top end, you’re likely to get more natural results by tweaking the presence and treble controls on the amp.

Thanks Justin, much appreciate your response! So you basically import your MPT files rather than converting your raw ones upon import? There seems to be a little difference between the 2 methods when blending.

And yes, I wouldn't use the Air on a live or studio tone, but adding a few percent points, together with adding a bit of room, creates more of a "amp in the room" type of feel, which is nice when jamming solo in headphones.

Thanks again, I'm a big fan of your work, your Bogner cab is my favorite cab pack on the market!

 

[DanielePanza]

Looks like with @ML SOUND LAB it's best to convert the Raw files than importing MPT.

See below, in the first image Blue is the MPT file from ML, Red is the Raw file converted on the FM3:



Now, comparing the ML MPT file with a Factory cab, phase is slightly off:



Let's compare the Raw file (converted on the FM3) with a factory cab:



Boom, perfectly aligned!

With @York Audio IRs the difference between MPT and FAS converted Raw is smaller, but it's still there:



Moving things by 2.4 seems to align them:



My conclusion here is that it's best to convert Natural Phase files MPT on the FM3 than importing MPT files.

 

[York Audio]

Thanks Justin, much appreciate your response! So you basically import your MPT files rather than converting your raw ones upon import? There seems to be a little difference between the 2 methods when blending.

And yes, I wouldn't use the Air on a live or studio tone, but adding a few percent points, together with adding a bit of room, creates more of a "amp in the room" type of feel, which is nice when jamming solo in headphones.

Thanks again, I'm a big fan of your work, your Bogner cab is my favorite cab pack on the market!

I mean, it’s probably not a surprise that I only use my own IRs, but yes, I just import Mixes (which are ultimately MPT regardless of if I use natural or minimum phase files to create the mix) and MPT singles. That way, I can use a Mix “as is” or blend in a single mic with a Mix to tweak the tone.