beginner: save for the tap dancing set up or the axe-fx set up?

[AbsoluteZero]

Hey All!

I can't find the newbie corner or something like so i don't know if it's safe to post something like this here.
but here it goes.(don't worry, i'm prepared for every criticism you will throw at me)

I just joined today and i can say that i listen to almost every known artist that uses an axe fx (JP, Guthrie Govan, Periphery, Born of Osiris, Intervals, etc)

Honestly i don't own an axe fx (yet - or maybe not. you'll find out why soon enough) and the only thing i have is an old guitar, a busted 20 watt solid state amplifier, a locally made distortion and a cheap delay. I've been playing guitar for almost 10 years but i'm pretty sure i'm still a beginner in every aspect. I just got my first electric guitar on 2011 and I think I was 18 back then (I know, generally speaking i'm too old already when i got my first electric guitar).


Like mentioned above, i'm a beginner so is it adviseable for me to save up for an axe fx II XL, power amp, mfc 101, cab & softwares? or should i go to tap dancing lessons first? i'm really into playing metal with some ambient guitar riffs and stuff. i need some natural sounding, top notch distortions, overdrives, delays, reverbs, modulations, compressors & noise gates. please don't mention the vypyrs, spiders & pods because the main reason why i'm here is choosing between an axe or the conventional stuff. besides i don't like those.

I've been checking out the blackstar ht 5 series(both the metal and not. and if you're gonna ask me why, i'm going to run those pedals through the clean channel of it.) together with the mesa 2x12 rectifier. altogether with the pedals plus pedal switcher, cables & power supply they're around 2k less than an axe-fx, mfc 101, poweramp, cab & softwares.

Obviously, i can't get all the pedals at once so probably after the the amp and cab purchase, i'll deal with those one by one.

For the axe-fx, i like the axe-power amp-cab set up. i mean, im used to hearing the noise coming from my old amp together with my fart so i'm not going to run it through a computer unless i'm going to record something. To be clear, i'm not rich so i wil be working my ass off for maybe 1 1/2 - 2 years to get a complete axe fx set up or the conventional set up. I'm going to buy a new guitar also. I considered upgrading my guitar but to all that expense i calculated, it's just $300 less than getting a new guitar so i might as well sell it and get a new one.

Also, anyone tried the axe in a mesa 2x12 rectifier? marshall cabs? evh cabs? vhts? or anything good. For reference tone. I mean, for me getting a custom cab would not be a good idea since i don't really don't know what cabs from mesa, marshall, evh, or vht sounds like. Any suggestions for a good cab?

There it goes. I hope i'm not that stupid enough to post something like this here.

Thanks!

AZ

 

[Stringmanipulator]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

All I can say is go for the axe fx II and mfc101 and a couple of expression pedals and you
will never regret it .. almost all the good people on this forum agrees that it's their best
buy ever. The constant improvement, and the super quality state of the art that FAS stands for
are second to none.

Been playing for 30 years myself, and nothing I've heard or used comes even close to the setup I'm using now.

go for it man! you'll thank me later

 

[gin]

i would suggest to get yourself the axe fx, a solid state power amp and a good guitar cab (no need for 4x12, i would rather go for 1x12 or 2x12)


the axe fx has all you need: amps, distortion pedals and effects

for cab suggestion: go for a cab with celestion v30s its broadly used for metal (but not only ) there are tons of cab manufactures out there and everyone likes a different one. if you are on a budget just look for a cheap 2x12 or 1x12. there are differences in sound but not THAT much (i used to play my engl powerball to different cabs loaded with the same speakers: the sound difference wasnt that big as i would care for as a beginner getting a new setup)

edit. as my preposter suggestet to get the mfc as well: if you're just playing at home: save the money its a great tool but for the money ill rather get myself a new guitar (or at least a part of it )

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

All I can say is go for the axe fx II and mfc101 and a couple of expression pedals and you
will never regret it .. almost all the good people on this forum agrees that it's their best
buy ever. The constant improvement, and the super quality state of the art that FAS stands for
are second to none.

Been playing for 30 years myself, and nothing I've heard or used comes even close to the setup I'm using now.

go for it man! you'll thank me later

i can see that you're really happy for that rig man. anyway, i think you'll have to wait for another year or 2 for my thanks. lol. anyway, thanks for answering

 

[AbsoluteZero]

i would suggest to get yourself the axe fx, a solid state power amp and a good guitar cab (no need for 4x12, i would rather go for 1x12 or 2x12)


the axe fx has all you need: amps, distortion pedals and effects

for cab suggestion: go for a cab with celestion v30s its broadly used for metal (but not only ) there are tons of cab manufactures out there and everyone likes a different one. if you are on a budget just look for a cheap 2x12 or 1x12. there are differences in sound but not THAT much (i used to play my engl powerball to different cabs loaded with the same speakers: the sound difference wasnt that big as i would care for as a beginner getting a new setup)

edit. as my preposter suggestet to get the mfc as well: if you're just playing at home: save the money its a great tool but for the money ill rather get myself a new guitar (or at least a part of it )

of course, i'm gonna start at home, going to tweaking and tons of research then reach other users, go to gig. become much more of a professional musician than a bedroom guitarist. because that's expensive for a bedroom rig.

for the cab: is it hard to set up on a axe>power amp>cab basis? i'm thinking of going to some music stores to try every cab possible. so, is it similar to plugging a head to cab? most of the salesman here are very reluctant on customers to test out what they are selling. for the brands: mesa, marshall, peavey, laney, randall & ibanez are common around my country. so those are the ones i'm going to check out and yeah most of them have V30's.

for the poweramp: i'm thinking of getting a QSC PLD 4.2 because they don't have mesa poweramps in the local store and probably won't produce at all and i think they don't exist in the used market department of facebook (in my country) along with the fryette poweramps because 97% of the people in my country are new or doesn't even have the knowledge to the Axe FX so probably no one doesn't sell one right now. also, mesa and fryette poweramps are 117v that might be a problem for me because the standard voltage of our sockets here are 220v. Any thoughts on comparison between mesa/fryette and the qsc pld line? (which i should have stated before)

for 1x12 and 2x12 cabs: is the 1x12 cab enough for gigs? will it produce the same tones as a 2x12 can do? or is it just the same? i'm thinking of getting a 1x12 for gigs and 2x12 for home use. i know the 2x12 is too powerful for a home use but the 1x12 is much more easier to carry around during gigs.

Anyway, thanks for the head's up

AZ

 

[gin]

of course, i'm gonna start at home, going to tweaking and tons of research then reach other users, go to gig. become much more of a professional musician than a bedroom guitarist. because that's expensive for a bedroom rig.

for the cab: is it hard to set up on a axe>power amp>cab basis? i'm thinking of going to some music stores to try every cab possible. so, is it similar to plugging a head to cab? most of the salesman here are very reluctant on customers to test out what they are selling. for the brands: mesa, marshall, peavey, laney, randall & ibanez are common around my country. so those are the ones i'm going to check out and yeah most of them have V30's.

for the poweramp: i'm thinking of getting a QSC PLD 4.2 because they don't have mesa poweramps in the local store and probably won't produce at all and i think they don't exist in the used market department of facebook (in my country) along with the fryette poweramps because 97% of the people in my country are new or doesn't even have the knowledge to the Axe FX so probably no one doesn't sell one right now. also, mesa and fryette poweramps are 117v that might be a problem for me because the standard voltage of our sockets here are 220v. Any thoughts on comparison between mesa/fryette and the qsc pld line? (which i should have stated before)

for 1x12 and 2x12 cabs: is the 1x12 cab enough for gigs? will it produce the same tones as a 2x12 can do? or is it just the same? i'm thinking of getting a 1x12 for gigs and 2x12 for home use. i know the 2x12 is too powerful for a home use but the 1x12 is much more easier to carry around during gigs.

Anyway, thanks for the head's up

AZ

setting up a patch is pretty easy:
- connect your guitar to the axe fx
- create an amp block in the axe fx connecting it to the input and output
- connect the axe fx out with the poweramp in
- connect the poweramp with your cab
done.

for gigs: if there is a good PA you can use the axe fx to go direct signal for FOH and use the 1x12 for monitoring yourself if needed. if positioned right thats loud enough

 

[AbsoluteZero]

setting up a patch is pretty easy:
- connect your guitar to the axe fx
- create an amp block in the axe fx connecting it to the input and output
- connect the axe fx out with the poweramp in
- connect the poweramp with your cab
done.

for gigs: if there is a good PA you can use the axe fx to go direct signal for FOH and use the 1x12 for monitoring yourself if needed. if positioned right thats loud enough

seemed easy enough. thanks!

i'm not sure if it's possible to do that on pubs around the city (the axe-PA) because it's a new technology. maybe 3-5 years from now they can accommodate something like that. but the 1x12 alternative will surely do and should be loud enough just like a 30watt-100watt tube amp head/cab or combo.

AZ

 

[dukemcrae]

seemed easy enough. thanks!

i'm not sure if it's possible to do that on pubs around the city (the axe-PA) because it's a new technology. maybe 3-5 years from now they can accommodate something like that. but the 1x12 alternative will surely do and should be loud enough just like a 30watt-100watt tube amp head/cab or combo.

AZ

Any pub, any PA system will work with the Axe FX, there is no 3-5 years.....as long as you have the right connectors you're good to go. I've even hooked mine up to a crappy little Yamaha board using RCA jacks and it still sounded awesome. Do keep in mind that the crappier PA system, the crappier the sound.

 

[martijne]

Hello AbsoluteZero,

Welcome to the forum!

I'm also quite new to the Axe-FX. Over the years, I've experimented with lots of gear from really cheap stuff to midrange ams, guitars stomps and occasionally a high-end piece. I got fed up with all the gear trying, buying, selling and took the plunge in the end and bought a second hand AxeFX2. It does everything all my previous gear did, much more, much better and without any cable, psu, ground loop hassle. I'm very happy, even if I'm only browsing presets yet. It is a great boost to creativity and technique: So far, I've (re)written more songs in the last month with the Axe that in the previous five years before!!

At home I play through small studio monitors Roland MA15D. With band rehearsal I played through any guitar amps FX returns and through PA's and that works too. I think I will get a second hand monitor or FRFR from Alto or some other budget-to midrange brand. I don't have a MFC but a Behringer FCB1010 with upgraded firmware. That does the job too! Check out FCB Uno firmware, EurekaProm or LG-FCB (if you're a midi wizard or have a more complex setup).

Just get an AxeFx whenever funds allow. It will work with just any peripherals available from high-end power amps & cabs to $10 headphones or computer speakers. Many people here know that the AxeFX immediately & fully cures any Gear Acquisition Syndrome relapses except those for great guitars. Including myself!

 

[CraigJohnsJr]

If you're a beginner, you'll probably get a middle-of-the-road amp at first. Eventually you'll want to upgrade to a better head, or maybe two heads, and then a better cab, then better pedals, then more pedals, then a bigger pedal board, then more power supplies, then you'll want a rack, etc etc. My advice is if you're serious about guitar and you think it's something you'll be doing for a long time, then save up and get the Axe. It'll have every single amp, cab, and effect you could want, plus some. I was using an Orange Rockerverb 100, Orange 4x12, and shit ton of pedals. I switched to a Peavey 6505+, Mesa 4x12, GCX switching system with a rack and even more pedals, but I still wasn't happy. With this thing I can literally do ANYTHING I want, and if I had just bought this first, I would have saved some money for sure. My $.02.

 

[CraigJohnsJr]

Oh, and now I'm using a Matrix GT1000FX power amp (which I love) into an Orange 4x12, though I'll probably be getting rid of the cab soon.

 

[electronpirate]

.....With this thing I can literally do ANYTHING I want, and if I had just bought this first, I would have saved some money for sure. My $.02.

This right here.

I spent upwards of 10k in 5 years on various high end amps trying to be satisfied. What I wanted was ALL of them. Which I have now. I started out with Axe and Cab, and pretty soon I went FRFR. Even though I gravitated towards Marshall styles, I found a huge appreciation of other amps I wouldn't normally buy. A regular cab (not full range), restricted my tone and made it all sound vaguely the same. I went to a full range cabinet, and haven't looked back. I suggest getting the Axe II (you DON'T need the XL,) the MFC (although I would buy this last, since you can work with any MIDI pedalboard...I used a MIDIMate for years,) and any of the good FRFR speakers out there...CLR, etc. I will suggest a CLR, since you can get one and it will EASILY compete on a stage.

I purchased in 2007, and haven't considered buying another amp since.

Lastly, age does not matter when you start. The only things that matter is your love of it, and commitment to playing better (which never changes BTW.)

R

 

[dpavel]

For the last 15 years I kept upgrading my amps , stompboxes , guitars and I didn't find my sound until I got the AxeFx2 .I had several Marshalls, mesa mk 5 ,fenders,diezel herb, vh4 ,cornford mk50, boutique pedals , I sold all of them cause now all I need is my AxeFx rig , simple and great tone for me.

 

[Rotti]

If you're a beginner, you'll probably get a middle-of-the-road amp at first. Eventually you'll want to upgrade to a better head, or maybe two heads, and then a better cab, then better pedals, then more pedals, then a bigger pedal board, then more power supplies, then you'll want a rack, etc etc. My advice is if you're serious about guitar and you think it's something you'll be doing for a long time, then save up and get the Axe. It'll have every single amp, cab, and effect you could want, plus some. I was using an Orange Rockerverb 100, Orange 4x12, and shit ton of pedals. I switched to a Peavey 6505+, Mesa 4x12, GCX switching system with a rack and even more pedals, but I still wasn't happy. With this thing I can literally do ANYTHING I want, and if I had just bought this first, I would have saved some money for sure. My $.02.

For the win.

I can't even remember how many amps I've gone through, from cheap beginner amps to full blown boutique & 1-off stuff in the price range of two or three AxeFx's.
For great tone, versatility like none other, reliability, consistency, convenience, the Fractal puts them all to bed. If guitar is something you're going to stick with for the long haul, then the AxeFx is the perfect piece of gear to take that trip with.

I'm not sure what the used market is like in the Phillipines, but I saved a lot of cash by buying used. Although, don't expect a big chunk of savings buying the AxeFx itself used. They seem to hold value remarkably well compared to practically any other gear (and for a reason). That said, your PA, MIDI controller, and cabs (or FRFR cabs/wedges - which will give you the added versatility of putting UR IRs to use) can usually be found at great discounts if you look hard and don't put yourself in a "buy it now" rush. For example, I'm using a Line 6 POD HD500 that I picked up used for under $250 as my MIDI controller & expression pedal. No need to spend x3 the amount on higher-end stuff unless you absolutely need whatever those units bring to the table.

 

[funny_polymath]

It all depends on whether you want a physical guitar amp or not. If you think that the Axe's amp modeling will work for you (it does for most of us), I'd get the Axe II or XL. Moreover, I'd get the Liquid Foot controller (LF12+ or LFPRO+) over the MFC101. I believe it to be far more powerful, and unlike the MFC, which JUST got an editor, it's had one all along. And, last but not least: there's a 'trichotomy' on this forum: 1) Those who use guitar amps and just use the Axe for FX (tap-dancer's for them), 2) those that use Axe's AMP modeling but still go through a guitar cab, and 3) folks like me, who are FRFR ('full range, full response') speaker users - we use the Axe to its full design potential: FX, Amp modeling, and cab/mic modeling. For us FRFR types, some have rack mounted amps driving passive speakers (as I had for many years) and others go with 'active' speakers, which have self-contained amplification (as I do now). I tried a LOT of combinations of high-end gear, including Matrix, Hafler and Crown amps, and all kinds of passive speakers, including a crazy-expensive custom 'fEARFULL' composite enclosure, and my guitar cab too, as well as several active speakers from QSC and Mackie. I finally tried a 'crowd favorite' here among the FRFR crowd: the SUPERB Atomic CLR Active Wedge (mine being the lighter more expensive Neodymium magnet version) - it has 2 week unconditional return policy, but after mere minutes, I knew it had my Matrix/fEARFULL combo beat, and beat soundly. It just sounds fantastic.. If you decide to use the axe to its fullest, FX, AMP modeling, AND CAB and MIC modeling, I'd heartily recommend the Atomic CLR ACTIVE speakers!

 

[Badcard]

My suggestions is this:

Start by getting as nice a guitar as you can afford and concentrate on your playing.
I love my AXE-FX, it's an incredible machine, but it will make you spend a lot (and I mean a lot) of time exploring and tweaking the beast.
This will be at the expense of your playing and actually getting to master the instrument.

I would definitely wait until you feel limited by real world gear.
Tweaking a distortion box and an amp is super fast and easy compared to mastering the digital paradigm, and you might not understand completely what you are trying to achieve with the AXE if you can't relate to past physical experiences.

Money wise, it might seem like you will save money by going to the AXE directly.
But I thing you'd be best advised to concentrate on a nice instrument (which you can keep a life time) and experiment with affordable amps and effects (that you can resale later anyways)

Bu the time you get enough experience and mastery, AXE FX might be a few generation older and that means probably cheaper as well as more powerful and easier to handle.
You will not have lost your time.

If you jump on an Axe straight away, it will cost you a lot of money, and by the time you come to a point were you actually master the thing, it might just be obsolete.
(I mean obsolete compared to the available solution at that time, the AXE is still great value when you factor in all the firmware and feature evolution)
And you run the risk of loosing yourself in tweaking stuff rather than learning how to improve your playing.

Simply put, the AXE will serve you much better when you'll reach an intermediate level with solid foundations.

My 2 cents.

 

[Rotti]

I sort of agree with Badcard's concepts, but in dealing with this specific case, I would have to suggest the opposite: Get the AxeFx first, and then find a suitable guitar.

My reasoning is that there are many perfectly functional guitars on the market at far lower price points than the heirloom quality stuff. The same is not really true with the AxeFx. The step down from it is a noticeably inferior difference.

Also, it has been my experience that having great tones to work with actually got me to play/practice more often. The buzzy flubby 1x8 practice amps of my early learning days were next to impossible to grow with as a player.

 

[EvilPhish]

Have your guitar set up properly, buy a Cube amp (or something similar), spend Axe money on lessons and save up for the Axe III.

I'm not being flippant or snide in any way, but based on how you describe your skill level there's no reason to jump onto the Axe train right now, it'd be akin to buying a Ferrari when you have only the most rudimentary set of driving skills.

Take your time, hone your craft, the Axe-FX will be there when you're ready to exploit it's capabilities.





Unless you forget to get on the waiting list. In which case, it WON'T actually be there.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Any pub, any PA system will work with the Axe FX, there is no 3-5 years.....as long as you have the right connectors you're good to go. I've even hooked mine up to a crappy little Yamaha board using RCA jacks and it still sounded awesome. Do keep in mind that the crappier PA system, the crappier the sound.

i was a bit over reacting and sarcastic about that. lol but yeah, you're right

 

[AbsoluteZero]

My suggestions is this:

Start by getting as nice a guitar as you can afford and concentrate on your playing.
I love my AXE-FX, it's an incredible machine, but it will make you spend a lot (and I mean a lot) of time exploring and tweaking the beast.
This will be at the expense of your playing and actually getting to master the instrument.

I would definitely wait until you feel limited by real world gear.
Tweaking a distortion box and an amp is super fast and easy compared to mastering the digital paradigm, and you might not understand completely what you are trying to achieve with the AXE if you can't relate to past physical experiences.

Money wise, it might seem like you will save money by going to the AXE directly.
But I thing you'd be best advised to concentrate on a nice instrument (which you can keep a life time) and experiment with affordable amps and effects (that you can resale later anyways)

Bu the time you get enough experience and mastery, AXE FX might be a few generation older and that means probably cheaper as well as more powerful and easier to handle.
You will not have lost your time.

If you jump on an Axe straight away, it will cost you a lot of money, and by the time you come to a point were you actually master the thing, it might just be obsolete.
(I mean obsolete compared to the available solution at that time, the AXE is still great value when you factor in all the firmware and feature evolution)
And you run the risk of loosing yourself in tweaking stuff rather than learning how to improve your playing.

Simply put, the AXE will serve you much better when you'll reach an intermediate level with solid foundations.

My 2 cents.

Have your guitar set up properly, buy a Cube amp (or something similar), spend Axe money on lessons and save up for the Axe III.

I'm not being flippant or snide in any way, but based on how you describe your skill level there's no reason to jump onto the Axe train right now, it'd be akin to buying a Ferrari when you have only the most rudimentary set of driving skills.

Take your time, hone your craft, the Axe-FX will be there when you're ready to exploit it's capabilities.





Unless you forget to get on the waiting list. In which case, it WON'T actually be there.

THIS.

This is an eye opener for me. Nuff said.

It's not that everyone's suggestions is going nowhere or not right for me but to me, it became clear that i'll have to start from scratch to justify what it means to have an axe fx after those years of tone searching.

Anyway, thanks for the input guys! Seriously, this is a great forum to begin with (even if i don't own the axe yet. lol)